I take your point, mate - impeccable logic.

But perhaps consistency isn't everything?

I wouldn't say I'm a stickler for consistency, but I take someone more seriously when they are.

It means the principles they base their actions on matter to them enough that they'll apply them to all they see. For example, as a capitalist, I support reducing the regulatory burden on businesses. One of the reasons is that the state should not interfere in a free market. However, I also have to support the elimination of corporate welfare and import/export controls on goods and services through the US's borders because they (and so many others) also constitute government interference.

I remain as consistent as possible with my beliefs, and if someone really has principles they also should remain consistent. Otherwise, they don't actually hold those beliefs as "prinicples." Principles are more fundamental than the shifting sands of pragmatism or public opinion.

But I'm not holding my breath for consistency to flourish across the world at the demands of this blog. ;-)

I have a feeling Utah dosen't grasp simple physics and ballistics. A rifle of any caliber, firing a live round will create a certain amount of kick, obviously due to the preassure created behind the bullet. A blank will have a very wek, or with certain rifles, no kick. The person with the blank will know it.

I was wondering if Troy Kell was executed, I can't find anything recent on him....

DID THEY EXECUTED TROY KELL ALREADY

I came to the sight also to find out whether Troy Kell had been executed. Some of the comments I heard amazed me. While I believe that murder is murder whether it's commited by a person or a state, never has a crime made me question that theory as the brutal and unhuman murder of Lonnie Blackmon. No one deserves to die like that. I do however think there are more adiquate punishments than the death penalty and that the death penalty lets them off too easy. How bout leaving Troy Kell in a room with the Blackmon family for five minutes before the guards do anything.

As a response to Nikki who wrote 5 min. with Blackmon's family is better punishment, you should really reconsider. In my opinion the only way you can beat this man up is with a gun,the man is made of steel with the heart for a fight, its scary! But the truth is that if you have any idea of maximum security prison life, you would know that if Kell didnt strike first Blackmon might have been the one this story would be about! Who knows maybe less brutal, but i doubt it!! Kell probably did what he had to do to survive in prison, im betting that Blackmon is no innocent defensless little kid.

I just watched the story about prison life and Troy Kell, and I also wanted to know if he was executed yet. I think nobody should kill another and I understand that Troy had a bad life, but he choose that road. Prisons should do more also to make sure people are safe, some people want to change and get out of prison and lead a good life, In the mean time they life a life nobody knows unless you walked in their shoes. But does anyone know for sure if Troy was executed??

The only execution date Troy Kell has ever had was June 28 2003. He was given a stay of execution at that time. No other execution date has been set since.

i've seen the film of the murder in prison committed by try kell, it was on TV yesterday. I couldn't explain my feelings... It was so hard to think for myself: "this is no fiction, this is no movie, this is real! real life, real blood, real death!"
and real no action from the gards.... just watching, waitting....
i'd like to know about what happened concernng his execution (i can't find any informations on the net... How come? why can we read about all the past three years execution and the life of these guys but strictly nothing about troy? Is there something that needs to be hidden...???)
thanx to let me know.... if you know...

I was taking law school courses and had the opportunity to talk with Troy. I was more interested in how he came to be. The crime before the crime. I believe he had intended to protect his long-time friend, the result was murder (not so sure intentionally. At 18, many troubled/lost kids don't care much about anything and grow cold and enter darkness. He declined the 2nd degree murder and pleaded Not Guilty. As a result he received life without parole. In prison, the boy who could of been saved and reformed(as the female friend was)end up colder, darker, and left with nothing to lose. Killing again was a mentality, a way of life. Nothing abnormal in prison. He suggested I read The Hothouse, Life in Levinworth Prison to explain his life. He also stated he had read A Catcher in The Rye. This to me was a glimpse of the person Troy could of been, would of been, if only.
Parents, teachers, and soceity in general is better able to reach out to adolescents who are illustrating warning signs. This is an example of a boy who was unnoticed and became a killer.

Maybe I don't write it all right, because I don't speak and write English. Beacause I come from Holland.
But I saw yesterday a documentary about Troy Kell on tv, and I was deeply shocked by it. But I don't think that death penalty is a solution. Troy kell doesn't get punished an off by death, to tell the truth i think it's an easy way out for the actions he did. Put him on bread and water in a cell from 1 by 1 the rest of his life and keep him as long living as possible.
In Holland we doen't have the death penalty.

But what also shocked me is that it's possible in a maximum secured prisson to kill someone as easy as he and Daniels did.

And what I didn't saw on the documentary is what the government did after his first killing, didn't they do something about his sick mind, He was only a kid after the first killing, I don't aprove his actions NOT AT ALL, but if they gave him some help (shrink) they could occur the killing in prisson.

Sorry if I shocked some people by my way of thinking but I'm against death penalty. In all times.
Sorry.

I totally agree, I believe that the death penalty should never ever be used, but more so I agree with your comment about the help that Kell failed to recieve. I also live in Holland and I know that if you commit such a crime you would most certainly get TBS or at least some form of psychiatric help to assertain whether or not you are a danger to society, and what needs to be done to prevent you from becoming a repeat offender.
How is it possible that such a horrific crime such as the stabbing of Lonnie Blackmon could occur in a maximum security prison under the noses of the guards? What a joke the american prison system must be.....

we all die. it dont mather.

I just saw the same documentary ("Gladiator Days - Anatomy of a Prison Murder") as the rest of you guys.

What appalled me the most was that it showed what a complete FAILURE the US legal system is! And it showed what a failure the prison system is in particular.

First of all, it is - in my opinion - a great crime against humanity to sentence an 18-year-old to life in prison with parole. No matter his crime it is a far greater crime to give him such a sentence.

That brings me to the second part. Some of you write that it is "normal" to kill each other in prison. This really shows what awful prisons then USA has. People are treated like animals and so, animals they become. You should treat people with respect always - particularly when they are weak, as prisoners are! You should let them wear normal clothes and let them spend time on usefull stuff like education or anger management classes. Instead the US lock people up and treat them awful.

As for the death penalty it is just another way of killing. All killing is wrong, with the death penalty, the government is the murderer, and so is the person who supports.

I am from Denmark.

Is Troy Kell dead??

I am a friend of Troy Kell and we correspond on a regular bases.
He is still alive and his attorney is appealing in court for him.
No new execution date has been set. For all I know it could take years before this appeal has reached the point where it is useless. The a judge will set a new date, unless Troy asks for his death warrant like he did in april 2003. The judge granted his wish and set the date for june 28 2003. In the last minute Troy changed his mind and appealed against it which was granted and the execution was stayed.
He now has a new laywer and is appealing again.
He doesn't deserve to die. Other people have done worse things than Troy. If Lonnie Blackman was white, nobody would loose any sleep about this. Just because he was black, they made a racial issue out of it, it got blown out of proportions and Troy was sentenced to death which is so unfair.
I hope with all my heart this his appeal will be succesfull and maybe one judge has enough courage and guts to change the verdict here.

I totally agree with you Karen. If he were white everything would be different. I am also from Holland and I saw the documentary and I cant tell you how much it affected me. It´s so unfair that they would want to execute him when he has never had the chance to live a normal life. I think Troy Kell is not a horrible person, he´s just a man protecting himself and the people he loves. Of course killing someone is horrible, but death row is not the answer. After the night I saw the documentary I searched the internet to find out whether he was still alive or not. I was so glad the execution in 2003 didn´t happen. Im very happy to hear that he has a new lawyer and that he is appealing against death penalty. and I wish I could do something about it but unfortunately i cant. It might be a little stupid to say this but Troy Kell is the only murderer who I ever respected. Seeing this documentary changed my point of view and I am so glad that it will take at least a few years before the decisionwill be made. I hope they will treat him right in prison and that they´ll give him another chance. When I heard him speaking on TV, I only thouhgt: this guy doesnt belong in prison. I dont´even know why I just had the feeling....Your so lucky karen that u can get in touch with him I hope you´ll let him know that there are many people supporting him, both in the US and in Europe..

COME ON.... Did we see the same program? He killed that man in cold blood. He was proud of it afterwards. It made him high. I still think about how horrible it was to see him kill that other man. I have never seen something that effektet me so much. I don't give a flying fuck, what his colour was.

I can see that Troy has had a bad life, and that some of the answer lies there. But honestely, we would all be in danger if all people with at bad childhood does what he has done.

I have watched the documentary repeatedly, and have thought whole heartedly on what was said throughout the story. I believe Troy was a victim of our society and should not have been shuned in such away that it would forever change his persona. I believe that in the killing of Mr cotton Troy was taking justice into his own hands.In the muder of Mr Blackmon lets not kid ourselves here, they were in a maximum prison for a reason . So Mr Blackmon was not as inocent as people have made him to be. Did he deserve to die in such a violent way,I dont think so , but in prison you have to adapt and over come,kill or be killed,basic laws of the jungle . In this case a concrete jungle.Once again Iam not siding for Troy in any way I am just stating that in some countries society is based on the way they treat there prisoners, in our country society itself is failing.

I cannot believe some of the postings on this website. I'm not going to go into a lot of detail because I am just appauled by the words on this site. Troy stabbed the buy 67 TIMES!!! YES 67!! He deserves everything that he gets. Some keep pointing out that Lonnie was in a maximum security prison and maybe deserved to die anyway....but Troy does not?? Makes no sense to me. I do however, agree with others that the death penalty doesn't really give them the true punishment that they need. He took a person's life, it doesn't matter whose it was, it was a life and that is all that matters.

Someone getting stabbed 67 times is over kill. The one doing the stabbing needs to feel the shank going into his head and feel HIS head raising off the floor when the shank is pulled out. All of you that are trying to focus on racial or whether or not the death penalty is just, put yourself in the victim's place and see if you can FEEL those 67 different stab wounds puncturing YOUR body. Or place one of YOUR sisters or brothers in his place getting stabbed and see if you still feel the same

MY PERSONAL OPINION,I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHAT IS TAKING THE SYSTEM SO LONG TO KILL THIS FUCKEN ANIMAL HE WAS 18 WHEN HE TOOK SOMEONES LIFE HE KNEW WHAT HE WAS DOING,AND IN CASE HE DIDN'T ALL THOSE YEARS IN PRISON SHOULD OF TAUGHT HIM TO BE A BETTER MEN BUT INSTEAD HE KILLS A BLACK MEN TO FEEL PROUD OF BEING WHITE IF YOU HAVE NOT SEEN THE VIDEO GOOD FOR YOU CAUSE THOSE TWO FUCKEN COWARDS WILL MAKE YOU AGREE WITH THE DEATH PENALTY DIE MUTHAFUCKERS.....

I was also impressed by the Documentairy, im also from Holland :)
Im not a shrink. I believe in the symbols of life.
You may interpratate many things in different ways, but once you this language its easy to see the signs. What i think what its about this man, and what makes him touch others (in his 'charismatic' way)has allot to do whit how we are inside and the world of today. Look at the world today... I think life in prison reflects life outside in a blown up way...its not so much different but a 1000 times more terrible. So what this man is about stands for so many other stories in this world.

I think he has no selfrespect. No love for himself: I believe murering someone stands for murdering youreself. Its a metafor!
The argument Troy hold for his actions and what he says he stands for (among other things) is to be a seperatist. In his explainaition its a little different than to be a rasist/fascist but its what his tattoos also express.
Now let me explain something wich xenofobia (racial hate)stands for/ reflects: "Leading a dubbel life....The little Doe who is afraid, in the apearence of a Lion. Feeling frustrated, intangled. Pushed aside, ore thinking others pushing him away from the hood. Feeling hurt,abandoned,sad,lonely,powerless,not loved, infirior... For this reason as a reaction, he will supress ore hurt the once that feel just like him: the supressed and neglegted, the minority . The underdog. Its an expresion of fear and POWERLESNESS. Inside he feels threathned. Scared. But what scares him the most is his own emotions, his fears: The little soft child that's inside of all of us, asking for atension and love, asking to be spontanious, free .... but he is hard for himslef. No self-love. Its an expression of SELFHATE. Why is he hating himself so much? Was it education: Pointed at ambition and acheavement, to come clean and strong for the outside world, but having to miss the most beautifull feeling: LOVE. Feeling handicapt, never good and strong enough. Needing to find 'Self-fastening'around himself; roarring as a lion, so called fighting for an ideal ... he is destructively finding its way.
If only he can proove that he is a real Man, than he feels satisfied.
Actualy because he strangles himslef with his own mask, he wants to take away the freedom of others to be themselfs.

"The earth belongs to all of us. Great is he who finds his own goodness.
Give youreslef the Love and the attension you deserve and need so much, so in return it wil be fruitfull to the world outside you."

Good luck to you Troy (and all the other Troy's out there...!)

Troy was not a product of an uncaring society. In fact, he was a product of abuse from his father. I know, because I witnessed it as we grew up together. Troy was full of issues that couldn't be seen by professionals, because he hid his problems, as did I. If Troy were to say anything back then, his dad would've got wind of it and beat him severely.
Troy's father groomed him to become a killer. Yet I feel bad for saying so, because he still adores the man.
I am ashamed of myself for not helping Troy when I moved out on my own, because, unlike the so-called "professionals", I did see it coming.
Every fight, every arguement, got worse as we grew older. He hurt inside and even though his rage was growing more and more vicious, he also had the biggest heart of anyone I knew.
Although, I wasn't there when he killed his first person, I can tell you what his face looked like a split second before he pulled the trigger. Troy's look was always the same, even if the results got worse.
Troy simply went into a defensive mode that could not be shut down until the threat (real, or percieved) was gone. If Troy thought someone might be a threat, he would find that person and not wait for them to come to him.
I believe that is because his dad would be gone for extended times and beat Troy when he got back for things Troy did while his father was gone.
Troy will always be my friend, but I blame his dad for things that Troy never will.
Because of him, I will never get to do even the simplest of things, like invite Troy on a fishing trip.

Hi I'm Nicky and I'm from Holland also. I agree that Troy Kell did some horrible things, but what drove him there? Karen Beishuizen maybe you can help me get in touch with Troy???
I think that when he commited his first murder and got help from someone who could really make a differance, he'd have never commited another murder. And for the people who feel sorry for Lonnie Blackmon... come on he was in prison for armed robbery. So he wasn't a saint either. According to some of you it's wrong that he died, but isn't that the same thing what were doing to Troy Kell right now. So it's okay when Troy dies but everyone was in tears when Lonnie Blackmon was killed.

Nicky

I saw the documentary about Troy Kell and I must say that this man is a is a true coward. while he plays the tough guy role to the camera let's look at his actions. He kills a man in cold blood along with his buddy and girlfriend with a gun and then this coward turns around and kills another man with his friend by stabbing him to death.... Now it's his turn to ante up and what does he do file an appeal on his sentence. This made caused death without remorse then come along these bleeding heart liberals "Please don't excute him" and "Executions are wrong".... What about the victims rights? What about their families' loss? How come these bleeding heart liberals pities the assailiant "poor little feelings".... I say don't screw around get it overwith, Troy Kell shouldn't have an appeallate process because he IS guilty... Too many times mostly females fall in love with these pretty boy killers and seek sympathy for them because of their lonliness.... Get a man worth something. Like the woman from Holland she thinks because a guy is in prison for armed robbery his death is meaningless; however what she fails to understand Troy Kell is a coward rabid dog that shouldn't be wasting the tax payer's money. He is guilty, guilty guilty. With women like this raising children it is no wonder society has so many deviates because of these weak desparate women. If Troy Kell is truly sorry then surrender his life RIGHT NOW by some form of execution. Yeah, yeah then again some people will say what sense does this make because the dead are already dead and they can't come back.... Well let me point this out Troy Kell will be dead also that another person can die by his actions.

I watched the show. Yeah he seams like a semi-intelligent man. So what. Nicky when you fantasize about your dream date with Troy, think about the shank he's pulling out of that guy's head.

I KNOW TROY, I AM STAFF AT THE PRISON THIS OCCURRED, HE WAS OFFERED COUNSELING, HE REFUSED, HE "DIDN'T NEED IT" THIS IS AMERICA FOLKS, YOU CAN'T MAKE IT HAPPEN, THIS WAS THE MOST PREMEDITATED BLOODY THING EVER, STAFF STILL HAS DIFFICULTY YEARS LATER. TROY WAS EVIL INCARNATE, HE WAS OFFERRED EDUCATION AND REHABILITATION, NO TAKES. THIS IS A REALLY GOOD PRISON, WE HELP A LOT OF GUYS. TROY DIDN'T WANT HELP, HE WANTED TO BE TOUGH. BLACKMAN WAS NO ANGEL EITHER, ALTHOUGH NO ONE DESERVES TO DIE THIS WAY. WHAT TO DO WITH SOMEONE LIKE THIS, PAROLE HIM? NO HE WAS REALLY DANGEROUS AND CHARMING AND GOODLOOKING AND MANIPULATIVE AND YOU GIRLS WERE BUYING IT. SOME ONE LIKE THIS
CANNOT BE HOUSED EFFECTIVELY AND CANNOT BE RELEASED. THIS LEAVES DEATH

So Troy had a hard life and Lonnie was no angel... i have had a extremely horrid hard life....and? ok these guys are in maximum security prison for a reason BUT this Troy looked happy, cocky and high off doing what he did to Lonnie. As CASS says it clearly Troy has refused any and all type of help. The guy needs to be put to sleep. COME ON PEOPLE, HE FUCKING SHANKED HIM 67 TIMES!!! What a fucking animal! and don't give me this racial crap... white, black, pink, purple, green, clear... If Troy had done this to your brother you would be singing another tune.

Not to mention Blackmon was secured to his waist with cuffs,leaving him no way to protect himself.Plus his buddy holding him down.If thats not a coward ,I don't know what the definition would be?I had trouble sleeping the night I saw that,the unbelivable cruelty commited by him on a defenceless human being.He took away the only thing that mattered to Blackmon,his life.I bet Blackmon was begging for his life while Troy just kept stabbing till he could beg no more.Sad really sad, that Troy gets the option to beg for his life and gets it!

karen and jeanine! You two have to be the two most loneliest and stupid bitches on this fuckin planet. First of all this idiot kills another guy with the assist of his friend who is holding this guy down. Neither one of the dickless motherfuckers had cuffs on and Blackmon did. THEN, KELL has the fuckin nerve to try and appeal his death sentence which is also an indicator of being scaared to die like Blackmon did (again i'll say he was helpless). What's really gonna happen is something really bad is gonna happen to Kell or someone in his family sometime and probably soon. Then this piece of fuckin shit can either fuckin die and go to hell or suffer and remember what he did. So you two horny ass bitches that can only fantasize about your dream date I hope you get it along with a shank up you stinkin asses. Get back at me!

This is a message for CASS, staff member @ U.S.P - Draper Fac.
I read your comments posted April 30,2005 @ 1:00 p.m. and had a real good laugh at the lies that came out of your mouth. My boyfriend is housed in U1 with Troy Kell & we both know him very well. You said that Troy could not be housed effectively. Is your definition of housing effectively having the "goonsquad" beat-up, break the bones of an inmate while they are in handcuffs and then allow a "female" guard to lead them around completely naked by a leash?? You know about the "dog leashes" ya'll use in Draper, don't you CASS? And we both know the list goes on & on, don't we CASS? You also said that this is a really good prison & ya'll help alot of guys. How, by breaking their bones & humiliating them? And then the D.O.C wonders WHY an inmate is so mean. You people are completely clueless & way beyond sadistic. It is a crime to strip a prisoner down & lead him around by a leash in Iraq. A female soldier was just convicted for doing the same exact thing that ya'll do there in Utah. If the public really knew & cared about the cruel & sadistic things that the guards do to inmates, then there would be a slew of corrections officers going to prison. Which is where so many of them should already be. In so many cases, the only difference in the guards & the inmates is the uniform they wear!!

I just got done watchin him on HBO! All I have to say is SAD! This world is SAD! :( God help us all!

the prison system in usa is designed to be a revolving door at best.it has become a very lucrative and profitable industry.warehousing human biengs is big buissiness.like big buissiness it is corrupt and driven by power and greed.i have done time in califrnia and i can tell you first hand that even though us convicts did crimes and GOT CAUGHT,the treatment and general abuse at the hands of power tripping cos and gaurds is unjust and only perpetuates the problem.i understand the frustration felt by convicts because i lived it,and i dont know of the answer to this problem ,but i will say that even though a convict is guilty,he is still a person and should not be subject to abuses by fucked up staffmembers.as for troy,only god can truly judge,i do understand what he did and why,not that its right or wrong it just is...

I have watched the doc. many times and I hate to break it to some of you, if Blackmon would have been white the outcome would have been the same.Kell stabbed the man so many times he had to shake the blood off the blade! It looked to me like he stabbed him for a while , got tired, walked away and then went and stabbed him some more. It is a tradegy for all parties involed, but it is a prime example of our prison system today. They don't care, Blackmon is just another dead inmate.You will notice that they were commenting on what was happening as it was happening and yet it took them 5 minutes to come in and squash the situation. It looked to me like they really weren't interested in saving Blackmon's life or possibly too scared of Kell themselves to intervene. If the latter is the case then I would suggest another line of work because I am sure "dealing with murderers" is in the job description. Whether or not Troy Kell deserves the death penalty or not is really not the issue. Kell has not done anything other inmates have not done, he just happened to be caught on tape doing it. It amazes me that people are so interested in either saving this man or condemning him when we have predators in the free world preying upon our children. When will a child rapist/killer get the death penalty? I will be interested to see how many "anti-death penalty" people crusade for that person's life??

I just finished watching the troy kell documentary. I have mixed feelings about the entire thing. I have no idea what living with fear and intimidation can do to a man. I do not think it is reasonable to expect logic and fair fighting rules to be applied by these men who are living under these conditions. I believe these men are treated like animals by each other as well as by some of the staff, and no one should be surprised that they begin to behave accordingly. There are consequences for your actions, and rightfully so, but I do not know if I agree with what those consequences should be. I will pray for these men and I hope that others will do the same.

THAT IS HILARIOUS FEATHERWOOD, WE WOULD TOTALLY BE CALLED ON
THE CARPET IF THIS OCCURRED. DON'T BELIEVE IT, THE ACLU WOULD
BE ALL OVER THAT ONE

After reading over many of the comments on this site, i realize i am not the only one who was moved by what was seen on the doc. it is incredible how prison does almost everthing but provide rehabilition. Troy was a killer going in. But after several years had transformed into an ice cold killer with numerous mental health issues. As a young man watching this doc, i can only feel scared straight. i have been in trouble before, but have never been incarcerated. and to be totally honest i don't feel that i would ever be able to adapt to an environment such as the one seen on the show. it made me look at my life and feel more grateful for everthing than i probably ever have. but more importantly, it made me feel so good to be alive. The effect of this show is very theraputic. i feel with the right authoriztion this doc. should be shown to teenagers and young people who are inches away from throwing their entire life away.if troy dosen't get anything out of life, hopefully he knows i got something out of him.

if it hasn't happend already, i would really like to know when or if troy kell has been executed yet.

I JUST SAW THE TROY KELL STORY ON HBO. I REALLY DON'T KNOW HOW T0 FEEL ABOUT THIS PERSON I HAVE A BROTHER THAT WAS PUT ON DEATH ROW AT AGE 18 AND WAS JUST COMMUTED TO LIFE IN PRISON WITHOUT THE CHANCE OF PAROLE. I THOUGHT I WAS AGAINST THE DEATH PENALTY BUT I THINK THIS MAN PLAYS ON THE INTELLIGENCE OF PEOPLE. BUT AT THE SAME TIME I FEEL SORRY FOR HIM.I AM A BLACK FEMALE BUT I FEEL JUST BECAUSE RACE WAS INVOLVED DOESN'T MEAN HE SHOULD BE KILLED BECAUSE PEOPLE HAVE THE RIGHT TO BELIEVE WHAT THEY WANT. BUT THE WAY THIS MAN TOOK THIS MANS LIFE WAS AWFUL AND THAT IS THE ONLY THING THAT REALLY SHOULD HAVE BEEN COSIDERED.

I saw the doc and had a hard time falling to sleep that night. I understand that prison is a whole different world then anyone who has not been in one can imagine, but 67 TIMES!! The way it was set up, Blackmon still hand cuffed, the other guy holding his legs while tough guy troy get high with every stab wound is clear indication that kell is too dangerous for society, be that prison or civilon.

Karen I was Just wondering if there is anyway that us who are on Troys side could get a hold of him or write to him to let him know we are here for him, I believe 2 wrongs don't make it right Troy killed Blackmon thats one not counting what happened when he was 18 but yet if the gov. kills Troy that makes 2 and god is the one to judge not us, god decides the punishment, sure troy will have to be faced by god and everything he had done but let god do that not the death penalty. I also feel that the prison guards let it happen, they let Troy kill that man, just standing there and watching, thats what guards are for

I can't believe the dizzy bastards that are on "his side". The focus shouldn't be on the murder he commited in prison (the horrors of violece and rape I do believe ruin people) but on what got him there in the first place. These bullshit fantasies about protecting this broad are obsurd. He shot an unarmed man six times in the face. Where was the tough guy then? why didn't he just fight him? I'll consede a certain amount of respect for a guy especialy a white guy (other races out number and stick together more, excluding these sick white supremist fucks) If he had these iron balls back then Lonnie would still be alive. The true trajedy in American prisons is housing non-violent offenders with these animals who have zero chance of getting out, therefore nothing to lose, to be raped and tortured. It sadly all to often turns into a life sentence for these non-violent kids. It is now estimated that one in four inmates is HIV positive with 240,000 inmate rapes annualy. Get a life and look for good people

Oh yeah, when I said i respected him I meant because he said he went in there a man and wouldn't surcomb to what most in his position have to i.e sucking dick, doing laundry etc.. For a young white kid you would have to be one tough sonofabitch..I could never fathom what he has been through but i don't go around shooting people in the face either. And not even Troy himself blamed this shit on his upbringing..My father brought the belt, the fists or whatever but i still know right from wrong.Anyway thanks for letting me talk, just remember what happened in that prison is sick and disturbing but it is a way of life i'am thankful I'll never see, but wanting to be this guys buddy cause you saw him on the t.v makes me worry about alot of your guys wellbeing also. I think alot of you are nuttier than a squirrel turd. I'm out bitches

What a unique case. Raises a ton of questions and the dual personality that society seems to have today. As a 18 year old he kills a man for trying to lead a 15 year old friend into pornography. If the girl would have gone to authorities they would have thrown the guy under a prison. The killing was crazy but how did he get life without parole, the girl got life with possible parol. Guess that proves Las Vegas is really the sin city. Lets get for real there is not a white person today that is not forced to deny thier heratage. Imagine walking in a black part of town late on Friday night alone by yourself. Matter of fact go give it a try if you have the guts or stupidity. Now think that you are in that atmosphere 24 / 7. Either you punk out or stand up. Troy stood up. Lets face it the guy he killed was in prison had a violent history to both guards and inmates. Way I see it Troy got him before he got Troy. I support the death penalty but there is no way either of these killings would warant that. There must be 100,000 people that have comitted murders that are far most shocking and brutal. Way I see it Troy is just a sacrafice for the political correct...

The Hothouse, Life in Leavenworth. This book will explain a little how the corrupt bureaucrats control "inmates" in this country. The inmate you are so quick to judge is guilty of defending himself, and those he loves. In prison society you can end up in a situation where you either kill, or be killed. Isn't your government doing the same in isolated countries for oil right now. Blood money! The guards who control these prisons are worse than most of the inmates, these are not isolates made up stories. These guards are left to their own doing, usually taking out their own aggression on inmates they deem to be below themselves. To corrupt prison guards. Your abuse will not go unpunished. Those who have right on their side can do horrible things.

Troy Kell was a warrior who did what he had to do to survive in prison.

Who can say why Troy reacted violently to the situations he found himself presented with, nobody. No shrink, No Guard No
Friend from the 5th grade. What he did he has attempted to explain and seemed at at a loss for words himself. He should have been given a second chance. Not locked up for life. The other kid who was in for forging a check, now gone for life. What the Hell kind of Justice they handing out in this country. I hope that Troy's girl Sandy gets out soon.

Wow. Half of you people are fucking nuts. I don't give a crap if Troy Kell had a hard childhood. Plenty of us had hard childhoods, be it getting the shit beat out of us by our parents or whatever the case may be. I'm totally blown away by the attitude reflected in so many of the above comments, which seems to be "nobody's responsible for their own actions if they had a hard childhood." Is this some bizarre epidemic across America that I somehow missed out on? Hard childhoods don't excuse us from being responsible adults, folks.

Yeah, I totally believe that the prison system and large portions of the justice system are cruel and unjust. Does that excuse Kell's behavior? Not for an instant. At 18, any asshole knows that shooting someone in the face 6 times is wrong, and if they don't, they're criminally insane and need to be placed in a psychiatric facility. In one's late 20's, any asshole also knows that stabbing someone 67 times is wrong, not to mention cowardly and pathetic. Honestly, I don't believe in the death penalty, but I really hope Kell gets to spend the rest of his life in complete misery, rotting in prison.

I'm totally blown away that any of you would have sympathy for this piece of human waste-- particularly the women in the group. Have a little bit of self respect for fuck's sake, and realize that this is a sick, dangerous individual you want to contact.

Also, this case has nothing to do with race. I don't care what color anyone involved is. It's pretty fucking BASIC to realize that murder is wrong, no matter what color anyone is.

Finally, to the individual who referred to Troy Kell as a "warrior", you need to check your ethical code for a minute, dude. I'm inclined to believe that you're probably a racist in the same vein as Kell himself, but I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt and just say that you need your head checked.

I think its funny how peoples "boyfriends" are locked up. Guess what..hes someone elses boyfriend now. Not like your not giving it up to someone else anyway, probably his boy.

You can be good looking, intelligient, articulate..and still a killer. Speculation on how and why things like this happen are find and dandy. However, the only real punishment for troy is have him suffer the same fate as his victims. Even then, the lives he stole are not returning.

Im also concerned with women who get their panties moist by idolizing murderers, rapists, etc. The amount of prison groupies is disturbing. You bitches need a slap. For real.

Hmmm..what a coincidence. That Jeanine cunt from holland is also a Nazi..wouldnt have guessed that

http://www.tightrope.cc/forum/archive/index.php/t-859.html

Yeah, stay in Holland..you Nazis have made such progress. Im scared. Freakin cavemen, all of you!

The comments I have read have absolutely amazed me. I know by reading a few of theses things that not many people have any concept of prison life. The fact remains that guards do provoke situations of violence, and they do instigate problems between inmates. If you have been locked up since 18 trs. old then that is the only life you know. It is a matter of survival. The institution has won. They got rid of T.K. and of Blockman.I know the system needs some type of reform. Unfortunately it is still the best system in the world. You just don't know who to believe. I have been on both sides of the fence...I know.

no comment!

I just watched the HBO documentary, and I'm not sure what to feel or think at this moment. Part of me is outraged at the actions of Troy Kell, but also outraged at our prison systems.

I don't think there is any denying that stabbing someone 67 times is horrible. It is a moot point as to why Blackmon was in the prison. Obviously, he was not a saint, as his brother said, but does that justify his death?

I work with drug addicts and alcoholics, and I sometimes have to visit the prison to interview people up for parole. It's a very different world once I pass through those metal detectors. When I wait for the doors to open so that I can walk through the court yard, I thank god my little name tag says, "Visitor." There is a different feel in there, one that I can't possibly hope to describe...but it's there. I have very limited interaction with the inmates and the correctional officers. I do sit in a room, alone, with about 3 or 4 inmates at time to explain to them about the program I work for. They are not handcuffed, and I have no prior information as to why they are incarcerated. Once I get to talking with them though, most of them are just looking for a way out of the jail, and once they get out, they run. That's just a fact, it's not my opinion, I've had it happen many times. Some people do not want to be helped, or rehabilitated, they just want to get out and do their own thing. There are some, however, who do seem to want to get out and help themselves, but I've not witnessed much success there because they are so used to being in jail, they don't know how to act outside.

A lot of people in this world have had childhoods that make me shiver to hear about. This does not mean, however, that they will become murderers, rapists, and the like. I believe there is something inherent in someone who commits such acts that they cannot control, something in their nature that causes them to deviate so far from the norm.

I don't feel bad for Troy Kell, as he seemed to accept that he must face the penalty for his actions. I know that the image of him stabbing Blackmon will live with me for a long, long time.

I too believe that Troy Kell could have been rehabilitated as well as his girlfriend. The justice system never came to protect them as children, so what did it expect in return? I have been on both sides of the judicial system, my own husband was murdered 25 years ago, by 6 persons high on drugs at the time. I requested that they not receive the death penalty. Though this country is the best each and every person should be treated as an individual and not placed on a scale of criteria. He acted in the only way he knew how to at the time he was a boy not even old enough to vote but old enough to go to a prison for adults when he was placed there. That is where he learned to perfect the skills of violence necessary to survive in prison.

I feel the same way many of you do about what an injustice it is to sentence an 18 year old boy to life in prison without the possibility of parol.

Regarding the second, prison, murder I can't beliuve there couldn't be aan appeal on the fact that it wouldn't have happened if Troy wasn't transfered to Utah in the first place. The documentary kind of grazes over the whole "prisoner exchange" thing. Why was Troy transfered from Nevada where to he knew people and maybe had a support system from family or friends to Utah?

Is it possible to send word to TK ? Or simply ridiculous to think that the “monster” might actually receive his mail. Condemning Troy is redundant, if one believes that the life he has lead is not punishment enough then try for a moment to imagine what it is like to live inside his head. Untreated mental illness is as good as dead, when you realize you have been forsaken and that you’re already in hell you can either wither away or take revenge, for having been born. (and cared for by a loving Supermax Corrections Corporation )
If TK ever does face the firing squad I hope it’s with his shit-eatin’ grin.

I have seen this story on Troy Kell and it did amaze me. I was shoked as to watch a man stab another man to death and see it first hand on video. It was hard to take at first because it wasn't a movie and they were actors it was a video of a real man stabbing to death a man who was unarmed, handcuffed, and who had no chance at defending himself.
I could care less is he was black or white or a fucking child rapist. Troy Kell took his life and did not give him a chance to fight back.
If that was your brother, father, son or anyone you knew you would be just as upset as his family was.
If you are going to have the balls to take someones life then have the balls to do it face to face and let him defend himself.
What Troy did was cowardly and unhuman! He is in prison for killing a man when he was young. He choose to take that man out and shoot him in the face. He also choose to kill while he was in prison.
My grandmother always told me to think before you do something because you will have to pay for your actions in the end whether good or bad.
Troy should of thought about what his actions would of cost him before he killed those two men.
No one in this world has any right to take someones life let alone take it and not let them defend themselfs at all.
You know when Michael Jackson was let go my first thought was someone is going to shoot that man. My friend asked me what I would do if that was my son and Michael got away free.

I told her straight up. If someone harmed my son they would not make it to trial. I would take them out right then and there and not even blink. An adult raping or molesting a child that can not defend for themselves is worth killing.

She said then what if they convicted you and you were on death row.

I told her if I took someones life then they have every right to take mine. I would know what I was doing if I did it and I would know what could happen to me if I was caught and I would deserve it no matter why I did it.

I am not god and I have no power to take a life without the punishment in the end. If I did it I would stand up to what I did and accept the punishment.

Troy Kell took two lives and I think two lives for the price of one is a fucked up deal.

If you are going to kill or harm someone then you must realize that you will get it back in two folds in the end. That is life so stop crying and bitching and stand up and take it like a man and face it.

We might live in the free world but nothing is free. Taking a life is not a free sport you can enjoy. If it was then no one would be here writing and defending a coward who killed two unarmed men and now is crying that he wants to live.

Tuff shit Troy Kell. You did what you did and who cares why you did it. Now shut the fuck up and face it!

For Brooksie-- It is also obvious that you as well harbor a great amount of anger, are you a victim of crime? If so I can understand, however your choice of grammar to say the least hopefully doesn't indicate your level of intelligence. It is written that Thou Shalt Not Kill, only God is the one who can truly provide justice in any situation. Your Grandmother was right about being responsible for your actions, your comments on Michael Jackson could be considered a crime as well, Terroristic Threat. It is possible for you to be sued or to get a visit from law enforcement if someone affiliated with Michael Jackson were to read and act on your statement.

If you read the comments clearly. I said my first thought was someone is going to shoot that man. I did not say I was going too nor did I make that statement to anyone. That was a thought in my head and this is a free world and I can express that with out it being a threat!
He did not harm my child and I could care less about Michael Jackson. If it was my child then it would be a diffrent situation all together but it wasn't nor do I even know the child. It was just a thought and nothing more.

I also said if someone did harm my child I would take their life and I also said I would accept my punishment. I love my son more then life it's self and if someone took advantage of his inocense by raping or molesting him then that person and I would deal with it then and there. I am not saying that taking someones life is right nor did I say I would not accept the punishment. It is wrong to take someones life and if I did I would deserve my life to be taken as well.
I do not know god nor do I beleive in what is said in the bible. If by chance there is a god and I meet him then I have a lot of questions to ask him. But as of right now I could care less what is said in the bible as it has been written in to many diffrent languages, versions and religions.
God is not a religion nor do I beleive he condones them. He is god and he could care less if you were jewish, catholic, christian, and so on. There is only one god and that god does not choose who will die and who will live. He does not have that power. If he did then why would a baby die in his mothers arms or a child get shot for no reason?
People kill people or people die from accidents, natural causes or they get sick.
Troy Kell killed two people and now the goverment wants to kill him. So be it. Why should he live when he did not give the two men he killed the choice to live.
I also think if the goverment kills him then they are no better then him. There is no win or lose here. In the end someone dies by someone else hand.
And no I'm not personally a victim of crime. No more then any other American living in the United States. I'm just like all the other true Americans and I'm tired of all the crap that goes on and never seems to stop. I'm tired of people killing other people and begging for their lives to be spared.
I'm tired of child molesters and rapist getting away free and not having to face their victims and their punishment.
You know I have no idea if Michael did it or not but the jury afterwards said he did but the state could not prove it. My questions is if they state could not prove it then why would they think it? Something must have made them think what he did was true? What did they want it to be written in English more clearly?
It is he did or he didn't not maybe he did or I think he did. Troy Kell was not a maybe he did or I think he did. It was he did do it and look it is caught on tape. He killed a man who was handcuffed to his waist and could not defend himself. I don't think one person in this life time can actually say maybe he did or maybe he didn't. Troy Kell even said he did it. Now he needs to pay for it and if the good old USA thinks he should die then let them kill him. It is his blood on their hands not mine.

Shoot the bastard!

s

For Brooksie, I see your point. It is a free country for the most of us. My opinion is that not all murderers deserve to die, when my husband was killed my thought was I wanted them to live the rest of their lives with the knowledge of what they had done, I made a condition of them receiving a life sentence that they had to see photos of the child whose father they had killed in cold blood. It was bittersweet, he was killed when my son was but a year old. For 18 years I did this, until it became my sons decision whether he wanted to continue sending them or not, he chose to name his own son after his father, and sent them photos of the grandchild his father never got to see. All but 1 of them has managed to relay apolgies and remorse, forgiveness is in the eyes of the beholder, I do hope that Troy finds inner peace and forgiveness before he is executed, or possibly is successful in another prison heroin overdose. Thanks Brooksie for your insight

For all, the system did fail Troy Kell it is possible he had mental illness or drug dependencies even before he killed the first person and much more after sentencing him to an adult prison as such a young age. Who raised him? How could he have been saved? He too was a victim most likely of prison rape, not to mention all the assaults. The system is out of control, the are housing not correcting anyone or anything, they ought to remove the wording correctional facility in all prisons unless they are worthy of such.

Troy Kell is someone I will always remember because he is the first and, hopefully, the last man I will see steal the life from another. Had I known what was about to happen I probably would'nt have even started watching the documentary. At first, I was enraged by the disgusting, casual attitude towards the loss of a life, blood is blood reguardless of race, how petty to keep bringing that up as though that were the issue. Troy Kell said he does not believe in Heaven or Hell, that it is made up to control us, did he see the video of himself as he murdered that man? Did he see his countenance afterwards, the look in his eyes? That rage and rebellion is what controls him, is that so much better? He cannot ever get away from it, like a haunted man he cannot hide from it and it has become his identity. Some people feel sorry for him, some people do not. I feel sorry for humanity b/c we ALL have the ability to fall this far, we are all fallen, we are prone to sin it is just that every man has their own vice. So who am I to judge? I can only say we cannot help the cards we are dealt in life only the move we DECIDE to make. Troy got dealt a bad hand, he had a father who did not know how to offer the love every child needs, and he did not know how to flip his hand, his choices prove that. Where is the hope in this situation is what I keep asking myself b/c this has moved something within me that I did not know was there and now I feel compelled to do something that makes a difference for someone with the same hand, in the same shoes as him. Everyone who takes the time to write and praise or condemn Troy is putting their energy into nothing if they are not looking around to find the child who is on there way to becoming another Troy and trying to see if there is anything they could possibly do to help make a difference. Troy Kell is a grown man we cannot make a difference to him unless he wants to make a difference for himself and so far he has shown he is content with his need to be intelligent with everything that makes no difference, so what if he knows the difference between a facist and a racist does that change anything in life? No, he is still miserable, he is still not dealing with the reasons of why he does what he does. He is not unreachable, he is not forsaken but he has to want to be found. And you people cannot find him, only God can find this man and meet him right where he is, only the blood of Jesus can make his sins white as snow. As unfair at that is, it is true, and none of us deserve it but all of us can have the saving grace of Jesus Christ b/c he died so we could live, murderer, rapist, pope it does not matter. Troy Kell does not believe in God but God believes in him, he does not believe in Satan but clearly Satan is so happy to have used him his whole life up to this point. Sleep is for this life only, one day he will wake up in a world he will understand at once is more real then this one and he has already experienced to some degree hell on earth. I will, from here on out, pray that he will decide to let go of the past and realize if in this life there is nothing to look forward to there is hope when he takes his last breath that he can go and meet his creator and not be judged for what he has done AGAIN there but have a new start. And Heaven is no cloud in the sky it is every mystery, beauty, creativity, knowledge known and unknown to man. God bless and forgive him and us who would judge him.

This is for Nicknite, if this guy can repent and accept God as his savior and actully make it to heaven then I dont want to be there.
Its time everyone goes back to school to learn science, we ALL evolved on this planet. People have been using religon to line their pockets for centuries.
Remember this is big business and nothing more.
Lets look at the real problem, Troy Kell was a symptom of bad parenting.

DUMB PEOPLE SHOULD NOT BE ABLE TO HAVE CHILDREN UNTIL THEY KNOW HOW TO RAISE THEM!!!!

Lets fix the problem from the root, and then society will fix itself.

It still amazes me to read these excuses about bad parenting, in the doc it only said that his father was strict, I live near Columbine and after that people blamed the parents for not being strict enough. Fact is some mother fuckers are just crazy like Chris Rock said. It is the sad truth of what is becoming of our nation, there is always an excuse for everything. It's okay to be fat, to quit and apparently murder because something must of happened in the past that caused the problem.BULLSHIT. I know that nobody reading my opinion is gonna change their's, but it amazes me how something I see as cut and dry, others (a scary amount)see Troy as a victim and easily forget about the families he has ruined and want to save him. He is not a victim, what he CHOSE to do with his life is a shame but of his own doing. If you sick bastards didn't see him on T.V or if he wasn't "good looking" nobody would be defending this piece of shit. And a huge dick in the ass of all the people who make race an issue. And for the guy who called Troy a warrior you probably are one of these dickless supremist fucks, and I'd be willing to bet you got your ass kicked regularly and laid rarely. I don't know why I'm drawn to this site to read these insane comments, but I hope they kill this fuck soon. I can't wait to read what his little girlfriends and bible beaters have to say then.

Mercy and grace are concepts hard to grasp but they are not man's to give or take only God's. I can understand how you would think you would not want to go to Heaven if someone like Troy Kell was going be there but you have to try and imagine if he wanted to be there his heart would be completely different then it is now. I am thankful the mistakes I have made to not hold me in bondage forever but I can decide to turn away from them and live differently. Have you never done something you are grateful was not caught on tape? We all have we may not all murder but sin is sin. But all creation has free choice to change from their ways and choose God's even Troy Kell. I hope he does even if it makes no since to you or anyone else b/c as nasty as what he did is, Jesus died on the cross for all sin including that and b/c of this sacrifice no sin is too great to be covered by his blood. Science has no relational value, where is the love or hope or companionship with THE creator of the world? There is none with science. I hope someday you will be able to seperate science from the ONE who created science. God bless you.

-First of all... We are all Human...Correct... ok well "The State Says I have an illness... mentaly- a Few... now that Im an adult i look back to the 3rd grade when they Diagnosed me Mania DEP-BIPOLAR-ADHD- I have 57 cuts on my left arm-NOT near my wrist- honestly i believe i was wrong fully medicated growing up-What They say how the meds were suppose to effect me ...RIGHT complete oppsite - I live in the number one METH county-Co Co County- and i was stabbed 6 months ago- my door has been kicked in by AIRIAN BROTHERhood ASS. who are either out on parole or on the run... ALL for the simple fact on how our minds and STREET gang tendacies Refuse to let us go-MOre so when THE WHOLE COUNTY n the STREET gangs are on METH12-40=age'd.. THEN u have PRISON gang leaders who " try to RUN street GANGS because its there "PLACE" BUT CAN NOT BECAUSE METH HAS TORN THIS COAST APART IN SOCIETY AFTER society... and point blank period all im saying is- when ur brain and heart soul..what ever grow a certain way.. its like a baby learning to talk- if u speak CORrectly THEN ur CHILD will MOST LIKELY be on point also- BUT IF u are raised in a HIGH TENTION VIOLANT CIRCLE OF FRIENDS- OR EVEN WORSE UR FAMILY- WEATHER U LIKE IT OR NOT ITS WITH U FOR THE REST OF UR LIFE-... im on ANIT SKITSO meds- AT NIGHT- and then i have to take AMPHETIMINES(in a pill) during the day I ISOLATE AS AA PRISONER WITH OUT THE KEY- its SCRAY- I JUST WANNA survive- WHAT DO THEY EXPECT IN PRISON- ALL THESE EXTREME INPATICULAR INSAINE MENTALITYS AND LOCK DOWN 23 HOURS- THEY EXPECT AND PAROLE TO LEAVE PRISON AND LIVE NORMAL EVER AGAIN- I HATE THE SYSTEM-..Please all its is is the same as something GROWING and in time UR A FUCKIN ROBOT-(barcode behind my ear) CO Co PRODUCt- Im on 22(in August) i joined gangs WHEN i was 12 seen my first murder at 13- Stabbed my First Vict- at only 14 and it continued only to get worse and worse- LIKE i think- u might not even get what im saying.. but- point blank period- LIKE THERES a solution for everything-to every problem- THERES a reason To every HUMAN ON THIS earth AS to why- .... how can it be an excuse---THIS IS HOW THEY MADE ME---- I UNDERSTOOD TROY KELL PERFECTLY WELL - I WANTED TO THROW UP WHEN I SAY HIM STABBIN/67x- but then WHAT DO PEOPLE REALLY EXPECT- GIVE THIS GENARATION A FREAKIN BREAK instead of CONTROLLING SOMEBODY ALREADY MADE FUCKED OFF FATE
.. i dont know i might be wrong ... but theres no way... I because i've REacted and NEVER backed down.. and DID things that COULD've givin me 40 -Life..... i could still get life one day- you know when ur mind is extreme and when it never stops thinking- or PAYING att. to your surroundings. and u end up in a situation where u snap- its LIKE a 5th OF vodka- u dont even RECALL..... how can The SYSTEM know whats right reall and wrong... when they cant EVEN FIT OUR SHOES
im finished
RIP CHEWY
LOONEY BOY
BIG T
JIMMY-BEANER
MARQUISE
RIPRICHARD
RIP LEFTY(killed by police-SHOT 56xTIMES 4 stepping out of a stolen car like they asked- no weapon no nothing- but every last cop SHOT HIM UNTILL THEY blew his HEAD RIGHT OFF- he was 21....COP's COURTs' PAROLEs OFFICERs- THOSE R U FUCKIN BIGGEST GANGS- .... i cant even think correctly- WELL RIP to many more i dont wanna list..... SAVE my place... AND THINK ABOUT IT folks- U EXSCAPED!!!
CRYSTAL-AKA SOLITA-SOLA...STAND ALONE..DIE ALONE

God nor the Devil made Troy Kell or anyone else for that matter kill anyone. If you believe there is a heaven and hell than that is your belief but it is not mine nor was it Troy Kells from what I have read.
I do not in anyway believe Troy Kell to be a victim! My mother and father were divorced before I was walking. My Dad was in and out of my life for the last 32 years and was a junkie, drunk, abusive, and mean person. My mother was also a drunk abusive drug addict! I was raised by her as we lived in my grandparents home.
I was never loved or cared for when I was younger by my parents and was forced most of the time to fend for myself. I partied my ass off and did everything and anything I wanted until I had my son at 19 years old.
I never once in my life killed or harmed a human being like Troy Kell did. I never used my family life as a reason as to why I did the things I did when I was younger.
I knew what I was doing and I knew it was bad. I didn't care because I wanted to do it and did what ever the hell I wanted. The only person I ever harmed was myself and no one else. If I did then I would take resposibilty for my actions and not use my idiot parents as an excuse.
If anything I learned from them. I'm a very honest caring mother to my son. I tell him what I have been through and what I have done in the past. I listen to him when he talks and I stand by him no matter what.
I brought this child into this world and give him all I got. I would never leave him or ignore his needs. He did not ask to be born nor did he have an option to choose who his parents are. Nor do any of us ever!
But we do have the option to live our lives the way we would like to. If Troy Kell chooses to shoot a man in the face or stab a man to death then that is his choice. Not his parents, gods or the devils.
No one made him do it nor did they take over his body and mind and do it for him.
He did it on his own and now he has to live for it. If he was rapped, beaten, or harmed in anyway while he is in prison that is the life he choose. He should not have killed two people to get himself there in the first place.
There are people who honestly do not deserve to be in jail and there are people like Troy Kell and murders, rapist, molesters, and so on deserve what they get.
I will never feel sorry for them only their victims.

This is for Crystal.
My sister just passed away at the age of 19 from issues with her lungs. She was born 7 weeks early and has had complications ever sence.
She never complained or made a huge issue about her health. What she did do was smoke pot and Meth for the last 2 years and that pushed her over the edge into death.
I found out after her death that she was smoking Meth. My father, step-mother and 15 year old sister knew and nothing was done about it.
After her death my father and step-mother blamed everyone and anyone they could get their hands on. They blamed her friends, my little 15 yr old sister, and the drug dealers.
What they should have done was looked at themselves in the mirror. It is not their fault nor is it anyone elses fault. My sister was an adult and knew what she was doing and still did it.
But they could have done something to prevent it or help her. They could have been parents who cared about their children instead of being selfish.
They could have done a lot of things but they didn't and in the end they still blamed everyone else when it really was no ones fault.

I love my sister and miss her more then anything. I wish I could have one day or just a minute to tell her I love her. The last time I talked to her was on her birthday and she said I love ya sis talk to you soon. She died 15 days later.

But I also know that she is the one to blame if anyone is at all. She knew she needed help, she knew what she was doing was bad but she didn't want to stop. She was addicted and there was nothing anyone could have done at the point she was at.
Maybe in the begining they could have helped her. Maybe if my parents were not drugies they would have seen her in touble or she would not have fallen in their path in the first place.

People make choices some are good and some are bad. But that is a choice they made. I sometimes think she was selfish in doing it knowing it could take her life. I get upset that she did it and didn't care about what it was doing to her. I had a lot of anger after she left.

I watched my sister be born and take her first breath and I also stood by her side as she die and took her last breath. That was the hardest thing and I directed my anger at everyone and anyone I could find.

Then one day I just realized nothing could have been done. She made up her mind and choose to do meth. I have to deal with that everyday and pray that my son never does it. He has seen it first hand what it does and all I can do it teach him all I know.

But if he does do it that is his choice and I can try to put a stop to it and will with all my power but once someone makes up their mind there is nothing you can really do at that point.

Drugs kill and everyone knows it. Some listen and some don't.

But no one is to blame or to take blame.

Brooksie, I am so sorry for your loss, I have endured the same myself. I know how hurt you must feel, but in spite of it all you are very strong and wise. God Bless You.

Troy Kell has not been executed yet. I called the Utah state prison to get a current address for him. I think he is a victim of the our prison system and is a product of his environment. Its survival of the fittest and until we walk in his shoes, we should not judge.

The failure of family, education, government (local, state, and national), the penal system, and the national conscience have led Troy Kell to the point he has arrived at. The cummulative experiences of his life do not excuse or diminish his personal responsibility. My 18 year old nephew is going to prision for breaking and entering as well as drug charges - he had a hard life with fairly significant childhood trauma. He was never abused physically or sexually but his emotional life was difficult due to a failure to bond with his non-custodial mother. He is responsible for his actions. If he continues to make poor, irresponsible choices in prision I am sure he too will spend life behind bars. Life in prision or the death penalty? Seems neither approach has stemmed the growth of violent crime. I believe that we as a society need to consider the questions we ask pertaining to crime and seek an alternate answer if as a society we are going to horor the US Constitution's preamble - "We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America." How can we best honor those ideals?

Troy Kell had I choice, still it can never be right to give life without the possibility of parole to a person that is only 18 years of age.

Troy Kell is messed up about a lot of things. He is a man who, as a man, has never seen a city street or an ocean or a friggin' supermarket. He has spent his entire adult life in jail, and this is a penalty for something he did. That something he did that got him in jail was the murder of a child pronographer and statutory rapist. Kudos. Now, he goes into jail without the possibility of parole (that's forever people, FOREVER!!)Iam a Cuban-American, and when i first saw Gladiator Days i began to wonder. . . If i were ever to go to jail, who would save me fromt he predators and rapists and such? I'm far to white for the latin groups, obviously not black, and a stupid disgusting minority to the white supremacists. Troy was lucky, in an odd way, to have been white because it alotted him a spot under the wings of older inmates thatw ould protect him. Unfortunately, it was marrow-minded hick skinheads but that's besides the point. The second murder he commits is the killing of another maximum security risk, who had committed armed robbery and assault on several innocnet victims before going to jail, and he did so as an adult. Let's recall peopel that at theis point, Troy had only kild a pervert rapist. Kell's victim was black, sure, but he had it out for Troy, and I'm sure he would have killed him if he had the chance. Through it all, Troy, the alleged "racist", ,maintained that his victim's family deserved the utmost in respect and that he was remorseful for the fact that it had to go so far.Then to top it off, one must realize that the man who was set to die the very day before Troy, by the exact same means as Troy, had killed half a dozen innocent women. This hardly seems to make any friggin' shred of sense. If you tell me the penalty for killing is killing, then kill Troy twice. but this is obviously not so considering the son of sam, the amityville murderer and Chalrie Manson and his entire team of groupie whores are all still alive and writing books. It's disgusting. Troy Kell is an intelligent respectful pragmatic, authentic person, which is reason enough for me to yearn for his presence on Earth-we're short on people like that. I think he was a boy that could have benefited from some anger management classes at age 18 or so, but alas that did not happen. I cry thinking about the degenerate gun-toting PCP smoking degenerate losers I've met in my life that destroy my beautifully diverse New York neighborhood and the kids in them and yet will never spend a day in jail, and then comparing them to this man who is so tragically beautiful in his truthful air. I hope he stays around long enough for me to write to him and have a nice intelligent eloquent argument about race and politics, b/c I'm deprived of good conversation. If anyone wants to tell me a direct address to write to him, that'd be great. Stay smart, people. - Nati, 19, NYC

I would like to have Troy Kells address as well, if anyone knows where he is located please e mail me his information. Thanks

I've seen rapes, I've seen shanking and I've seen a man get his jaw broken for farting. this only county lock up mind you. If you think race isn't an issue you have never been locked up. I was one of 3 whites guys in a cell that held 12 so it was four to one black to white. Everyday it was fight for your food. morning, noon and night. all because of race. when the weakest white guy was suspected of ratting about not geting food cause he kept getting beat out of it I wittnessed 5 black men restrain and sodomise this guy for over 10 minutes taking turns when they desided to let go of this guy he crawled over to the "panic button" and kept pushing it while he was crying and sobing nothing happend no rescue or even a guard on the intercom. finaly he just crawled back to his bunk so as far as there being the aclu or anyone to save you its a joke. If the blackmon guy did threaten Kell he got what he had coming. Prison isn't a place where manners and rules help you at all its about saveing yourself every second of the day and night. it's just survial plain and simple. there are hundreds if not thousands of people just like him in prison right now.

I cannot believe what I have read on this website. The ignorance that exists today is unbelieveable. I understand everyone keeps saying: "Oh, but Blackmon was there for a reason so he wasn't innocent either". So does that mean that just because you are incarcerated that its acceptable to be stabbed to death 67 times! I also understand that by watching the interview they drilled into our heads how charming and intelligent this monster is but does that justify his actions? Obviously, if he is so smart then he should know what he is doing, and he should know that stabbing a person numerous times, regardless if you heard that he was talking about you, is not right. These ignorant biatches on this site see a handsome man & find it ok what he did. And everyone keeps making this a racial issue. Yeah I'm pretty sure that he did that to Blackmon because he was Black but it does not matter whether he was Black, White, Hispanic, purple, etc., he would've gotten the same sentence, don't u think? & of course it still doesn't make it right. I guess everyone has there own opinion, of course, the racists on this site are going to take Troy's side, saying that it was "self defense". I STILL THINK HIS ASS SHOULD'VE BEEN PUT TO DEATH AGES AGO. OR EVEN WORSE, LET HIM ROT IN A CELL ALONE, FOR LIFE, WITH JUST BREAD & WATER, HOW ABOUT THAT?!

I think the prison outta be held accountable. They stood there for 5 minutes watching while another fellow man was being murdered. The guards have to be accountable, and the system re-evaluated. As for this insignifcant "Kell" person. The sooner they put him down, the better off we will all be. We don't need people like this in our society, or our prisons. As far as I'm concerneed, they should execute him as soon as possible, and as inexpensively as possible.

Troy Kell doesn't make excuses for himself, so don't make them for him.

Some of what I read here is shocking. SHOCKING! It's amazing how some people try real hard to find an argument or advocacy in any form on any topic. I grew up in an American inner city. Around killers, thugs and just plain some of the meanest men and women you don't ever want to meet. My father was nowhere nor my Mom. Several of us where in this situation. I'm not a murderous savage.

I watched this documentry and am very bothered. He planned it (quite cleverly), recruited an accompliss, attacked Blackmon and then man VICIOUSLY stabbed this man 67 times. Once his accompliss let him go, he went back and stabbed his motionless body some more including a blow to the face in which the knife stuck. He calmly pulled it out (lifting Blackmons head of the floor) and stabbed him some more. He began to walk away, turned around, picked up the knife again, rolled Blackmon's motionless body onto his back and stabbed him some more in the throat. He then screamed "Let's get some White Power jumpin' off in here!!!" Calmly wiped the blood from his hands and was arrested. Let me remind you he shot his first victim 5 times in the face at point blank range and then left him there to rot.

These are the acts of a man who knew exactly what he was doing and enjoyed it. He's very charming, very smart and contradicts himself every step of the way. He says "I don't hate Black people, I just love the white man." But, he wrote letters weeks in advance saying "I'm going to kill me a Monkey Nigger." You guys aren't that stupid. This man believes he can manipulate his way out of any situation. Proven by his self described "academy award winning performance" at his trial.

When you're a grown man you have to be accountable for what you do. PERIOD! You kill, you go to prison. You kill in Prison and you die (one way or another). Blackmon was no angel, but that doesn't matter. And we all know that if a white boy, brown, blue, red or orange boy was murdered that vicously it would still be a huge deal and Troy Kell would still die. So just leave the race madness out of it. He was a racist and he admits it and who cares. HE SAVAGELY MUTILATED A LIVING HUMAN BEING!

I don't believe the death penalty is just, nor is it effective. But people don't sit here and say Troy Kell is a victim and none of it is his fault and you love him and support him. Goodness why don't you bake him a cake and organize a parade in his honor. I want you to close your eyes and think about the fact that you love, support and want the best for a man that has BRUTALLY taken two lives. And would certainly take more given the chance.

TO: Terri in Texas...

I just moved from one state to another. Can I go kill someone and use that as an excuse? That's what you're saying.

Troy Kell was transfered because it was believed that he was involved in Murders in the NDC and intended to kill the man in the yard before he was shot with a rubber bullet (it is also public record). Prison Transfers are common. I'm glad to know that it gives us a reason to butcher people.

And folks an 18 year old is a man. He had a chnce to get 10 - 15 years but refused because he believed he could manipulate his way out of it and so he paid the price for his decision. That's the way it works. And by the way, his girlfriend has been rehabilitated and she had it a lot worse off than he did. And she was only 15.

is he still alive?

Just think, folks: the only reason that Troy Kell's case is of any interest to us is because we saw the actual footage. Without the videotape, Troy Kell is nothing more than an anonymous statistic, not even worthy of a cubic inch of newsprint in your daily broadsheet.

I don't have the statistics in front of me, but I doubt very much that it would be an exageration to suggest that, in a given calendar year, there are hundreds of inmates brutally murdered in maximum security facilities within the US. There are literally thousands of Troy Kells, each with a story as horrifying and as heartbreaking, but nobody cares about them because, for the most part, we're all too goddamn busy watching television.

In any case, Troy Kell is a monster. He may not always have been a monster, he might even deserve some of our pity, but, his miserable formative circumstances notwithstanding, the thing he is today is absolutely nauseating.

In the course of the documentary, Kell made some flippant remark about his pride in there being "one less nigger in the world" as a result of his killing Blackmon. Well, Troy, and all the rest of you white power nuts, I can say confidently that I'll sleep far better when you're dead, 'cuz that's one less inbred redneck sociopath in the world. White power indeed.

To Losing Faith in Humanity-- TAKING A LIFE IS NEVER RIGHT REGARDLESS... WE ARE ACCOUNTABLE FOR ALL OF OUR ACTIONS... WHAT DOES MOVING FROM ONE PLACE TO THE NEXT HAVE TO DO WITH ANYTHING? AS FOR AS 18 YR OLDS BEING MEN, THEY ARE NOT. THEY CANNOT SIGN A LEGAL CONTRACT, CANNOT PURCHASE ALCOHOL YET MAY BE DRAFTED AND PROSECUTED BY AN ADULT SYSTEM...I KNOW THIS I HAVE 7 SONS. AS LONG AS THE TEEN IS ON THE END OF THEIR AGE THEY ARE CHILDREN

By the way, who made the profit off of that documentary? Hopefully it was victims of violent crime and none other...

I'd like to say again, that I think the prison should be held accountable, and that "kell" should be put to death as soon as possible, in the most inexpensive way possible.

Troy Kell's address is:

Inmate Troy Kell, #22204
Unit A 1
Utah State Prison
P. O. Box 250
Draper, Utah 84020

Thanks for the address dallasalex, you can call me HoustonTeri

Terri in Texas...

You said in an earlier post that the only reason this happened is because he was transfered from one state to another. Which is Hog Wash. He was transfered because he was acting the same way in another prison.

Listen, an 18 year old is certainly a young man that has a lot of growing up to do. No doubt. It is a sad deal when you have to pay for mistakes made at such a young age. But we're not talking about car theft, we're talking about Murder. Legally, an 18 yeear old is an adult. He can sign a legal contract, they are legally emancipated, pay their own taxes and can recieve loans. Indeed, the only thing he can't do is buy alcohol.

And the fact of the matter is that by age 18, you have your morals, a sense of right and wrong and knowledge that you will pay dearly for your actions if you screw up with the law.

You go ahead and tell him how bad you feel for him. Let him charm you to. While your at it, write the Blackmon family and tell them how unfair we are all being to the man that butchered their son.

Between reading some of these rediculous postings and watching this doc, I feel as if I've wasted 3 hours of my life. Surely, some of you are jokingly implying that Troy be given a chance at a new life, he's a warrior, or a by-product of his sad upbringing...Blah, Blah, Blah,...BOTTOMLINE, he is an anchor on our society, waste of a life, and costing us thousands of dollars every year to keep alive! I can think of literally a million more productive ways to utilize this money than keeping him alive on death row! This gentleman is doing every citizen of this country an injustice by refusing to die and appealing. Hopefully, soon he will and each and everyone of you will forget all about him and spend your time on more productive tasks. So please, log off this site and go spend time with your friends and family. Nothing you say or do will change his disposition - he will die - and you will move on with your life and forget him. Point being --> he is simply a waste. Please move on with your lives!!

To "absolutley amazed", I agree with you. As for kell. He needs to die a.s.a.p. We're all better off.

I can't believe that some of you people are saying that Troy deserves to live! Regardless of what race the victim was it was still murder. Unfortunatley it was a white man against a black man, which made it look like a hate crime. I saw that documentary and I can't believe how that young man died! and to say that Troy doesn't deserve to die is crazy. He murdered someone in a vicious and hateful way you could just see it in his face and his mannerism. I'm not saying that Lonnie was a saint and that Troy was a saint Hello they were both in jail but that doesn't mean that it was okay to kill someone in that manner. He deserves to be punished and he was already in jail serving time for killing someone else so what the hell difference will it make to Troy if he stays there for the rest of his life...Eventually he will probably get mad at some prison inmate and try to kill him just like he tried with that Muslim man in 2001. The only way to stop him is by giving him the death penality and for all it's worth I wish someone from Lonnie's family would pull the trigger! I hate to see anyone get killed but he gets what he deserves. Eye for an Eye Tooth for a Tooth. What comes around goes around. I hope that Troy will stop being such a coward and take his death sentence like a man and stop trying to appeal. If the justice system worked right Troy would have died back in June...here we are a few years later and he is still living his life unlike the people he killed. Lonnie's family has to live everday with the fact that a family memeber is dead and that the man who did it is still alive. I swear if it was someone in my family I would be going crazy. For all of you who side with Troy imagine it was someone in your family...How do you feel now? The state of Utah needs to kill him and it needs to be NOW!!!!!!!

I'm not saying Troy Kell is a good guy or deserves a second chance, but I will say that both of the people he killed are scourge, just like him. Those who advocate his death would also advocate the deaths of those he killed.
Taking a life without consent is murder. If you condone killing Kell, you condone the killing he committed.

Even George Bush has a soul.

All you people writing these comments how many of you have been locked up? if you aint
been there you dont know shit. Troy Kell did what he had to do like it or not

I just watched the doc a couple of nights ago and I was truly disturbed. Troy Kell stabbing a man 67 times was an image I don't think I will ever get out of my head. And that it was videotaped in it's entirety, is scary also. Didn't one of the guards say that he was going to do something before it even started? I think they could have stopped it and saved Lonnie's life, if not even have stepped in and prevented it from happening. I think the guards thought that the inmates were all trash and the "show" gave them something to do in an otherwise mundane day.

I don't think that there is ever an excuse for killing someone. But, I think that fear can put you in a position where it's either kill or be killed. Someone I care about very much is incarcerated in Pennslyvania, my daughter's father, and he calls and he is scared most of the time. And he is only in county lock up. He says that they have to fight everyday just for their food trays. I was already afraid for him, and worry about him constantly, but when I saw this documentary, I worry even more. I worry about his safety everyday. He talks shit constantly about how this person said this and this person said that. And that you HAVE to stand up for yourself otherwise ur considered a "bitch" and more people mess with you. He grew up going in and out of boys homes, had an abusive mother, never knew his father, his step-father molested him. Since he was 7 he has been in jail in one form or another. He truly has been a victim. And he learned at a very young age, when going into a new home, to find the very biggest, scariest guy and knock him flat on his ass to gain respect. And this is a person I have known for 12 years, and he is basically a good guy, is an excellent father, but, I can see him being threatened in prison and doing something similiar to what Troy Kell did. Because in prison it's all about survival and respect.

I don't think that Troy should have gotten a life sentence at the age of 18 years old. I think he should have gotten time, of course, but also councelling, anger management, drug councelling, life-skills classes. I think that being in prison made a young man who already made a huge mistake turn into someone who knows he has NO future, is never going to live in the outside world, he is only going to know the inside of the prison. I think he knew what he was doing and that it could get him the death penalty, and he would rather be dead than live in prison til he is old and dies. And realizing that he DID indeed get the death penalty he realizes he IS going to die now and now regrets what he did. I think his head is all messed up. And I know I am rambling on, but, I can't help it. It's mostly based on the fear that my daughter's father, on any given day, could be put in the same situation and do the same thing, and she would lose him forever. And it makes me sad.

I'm truly sorry for what you are going through Guardian. I wish you a lot of luck with your situation. I know what you mean because I have a cousin that has been incarcerated for over 11yrs. Its hard, but hopefully with a lot of praying, things will pull through. Just keep your head up and be the best mom & dad you can be to your daughter until her father comes out. I know its very difficult to control but you cannot drive yourself crazy over something you cant control. Just try to be there for your daughter's father emotionally, mentally and spiritually & hopefully that'll help him pull through :)

I just watched the HBO documentary about Troy Kell and I think I am still in shock. The one thing that I think everyone has overlooked is the fact that the guards waited for over five minutes before going in to try and help Blackmon. There were people watching this brutal murder - doing nothing! Where were the guards? Hiding and waiting to get into riot gear - ridiculous!

The murder itself was the most brutal thing I had ever seen in my life and I don't think that I will get over it anytime soon. While Troy may be an attractive and articulate young man, we must remember that he has taken two lives, violently.

I had a horrible childhood and was abused constantly. Would I love to take a baseball bat to those who caused me such great harm? Of course! But psychologically fit people have that thing inside of them that tells them that murder is wrong. Troy clearly is missing this.

I like to believe that people are, for the most part, good, but in this case it is clear that Troy plotted, planned and executed a very brutal murder. Although I feel sad for the life Troy has had but that doesn't cloud my judgement in any way. He's a murderer.

I was deeply affected by this documentary but the fact is that murder is just wrong. The prison system definitely has its flaws but the bottom line is - a life for a life. Troy has already taken two.....He owes us more than one....let's start with his own.

Well folks, here's the skinny on Troy the victim, or Troy the cold blooded killer...
I grew up with Troy, went to school with Troy, skipped school with Troy, got stoned with Troy, and and watched Troy get his ass beat everytime his dad was home.He was not a victim when he killed the guy in the desert. In fact, he was called the "show and tell murderer" for a reason. He charged other kids to see the body. He may of killed his victim with six shots, but he pumped more rounds into the body as part of the show to the other kids. I know Troy as a cold son of a bitch, but I also see Troy as my bestfriend growing up.
Yes, Troy would defend anyone he cares about, to the death... But, once prevoked, would turn on someone just as quick. His father beat him mercilessly. And if Troy lost a fight, he was made to go back and defend his honor until he won. Troy is not a victim of society, he is a victim of his father. Yet, Troy would freak out if anyone said anything bad about his dad.
He loves his father more than anyone I know, yet if he wasn't in prison now, I am fairly sure that his dad would be dead by his hands. If you have ever seen two grown men fight, that is how Troy's dad would beat him when he was just ten years old. His step-mom was just indifferent. There was never any love in that household, just an uneasy respect mixed with a palpable fear of mistepping.
Troy was conditioned to be merciless. if someone wronged him, he would have to go back and right the wrong, so he believes that if he kills someone they won't come back for revenge. But, if he let that person live, they will get him. In effect, his life depends on cancelling out the threat.
With Troy being in prison, he has nothing to defend but his life, and his pride. Therefore, if either is threatened, he will do his best to defend both. And I have no doubt that Troy percieved a threat from Mr. Blackmon, to both his pride, and his life, whether immediately, or in the future.
Therefore he had to eliminate the threat.
It's a sick way to think, but that is how he was raised.

was he executed yet or not?
It would be a sad story if he has ot be killed yet. I watched the HBO special and it was disgusting to see someone so lifeless take another life, stabbing a black man 67 times for a reason over race. He needs to be shot 67 times.

I want to know if he's been executed or not.

I am very interested in knowing if he was executed or not. I believe the first murder he commited he was still a child and shuold not have recieved such a harsh sentence. I also believe that prison made him worse instead of reabiltating him it made him into what he is and that is the reason for the second murder.

To "laurie", I agree with you one hundred percent. You couldn't have said it better, the prison guards have to be held accountable. To, "in the know", A lot of people have had fathers that mistreated them. And most people don't do what he did. He's an animal, a waste, that has to be put down as fast as possible for as little money as possible.

NEWSFLASH!!!! Lonely?? Male??? Damaged beyond repair??? The great state of Texas or the country of Holland is for you. Obviously there are some seriously depraved people posting on this site. Kell is a stone-cold killer. Some interesting points of discussion have been made here, and by the very nature of this story you could go off on 1000's of debatable tangents but HELLOOOOOOOOO!!!!!! He is a fucking killer and I applaud the officers who caught his ass. Where is the bleeding heart sympathy for his first victim? Fuck, even the documentary refers to him as "Canadian Guy". One post earlier hit this right on the money....if this were not aired on television none of you seriously depraved dipshits would be asking for this guys address. For those of you who were Troy's friend from his childhood, hey, nothing against you. There is history there..your emotions are real and not for any of us to judge. Teri in Texas, et. al give me a fucking break. Wake up. There are 1000's of "Troy Kell's" in our prison system. Guess what? Some of them had even more horrific childhood years then Troy. I love this country because we have the ability to engage in these types of discussions openly and freely. However, as a matter of personal respect for your fellow person....don't throw up a litany of liberal verbage to hide the fact that this guy got you a little "humid" in specific areas. I think it is a shame that Troy became what he is at but at the end of the day he cannot be allowed to interact with society at large. Prison the rest of his life or death...I am not educated enough in that environment to even venture a guess. I do know that those of you who crying out to "support" him are full of shit. You want to "support" Troy? Work to make the world a better place. Troy is NEVER going to get out of jail...if he lives another year. He is a killer...he killed in the worst possible way ("Canadian Guy" people). Work to make sure that we create environments where we greatly decrease the likelihood of breeding more Troy Kells. Be decent to each other....that's how you can help Troy and everyone else. Not by sending him a partial nudie shot of your fat ass taken by one of your umpteen illegitimate children who you are scarring for life under the premise of "doin'a good thing". Let those who have been through the wars with Troy worry about him. You wanna help? Help us fix the world. Otherwise shut the fuck up.

To "REAL": I couldn't have said it any better!!

To in-the-know:

Wow! So you actually grew up with Troy? Not only am I impressed that you would shamelessly admit to being in any way connected to someone so revoltingly sick, I'm also amazed that someone with the same white-trash background can actually type a complete sentence!

C'mon, asshole, show us your Las Vegas high school diploma and a picture of you two guys out torturing dogs together, or shut the fuck up.

To in-the-know:

Wow! So you actually grew up with Troy? Not only am I impressed that you would shamelessly admit to being in any way connected to someone so revoltingly sick, I'm also amazed that someone with the same white-trash background can actually type a complete sentence!

C'mon, asshole, show us your Las Vegas high school diploma and a picture of you two guys out torturing dogs together, or shut the fuck up.

To Skeptical: I think you're absolutely right. "In the know" sounds just as much a useless idiot as Kell.

For Skeptical and Peter, In the Know has done nothing 50% of the population has not done: skip school, smoke, hang out with losers etc. The person he hung out with happened to be a murderer. Anyway he sounds more intelligent then the two of you combined and I am no advocate of Troy Kell. Grow up.

Hey Nick, I would highly doubt that "in the know" is more intelligent than me. Or anyone for that matter. Even you. He's an idiot. Not for what he did or who he hung out with, but for making excuses for someone whose actions should have no tolerance in this society.

In this writer's view, Troy Kell is a pure psychopath. His ability to justify his actions, and his hate toward himself and his fellow man is positively incredible. I was sickened by the video in "Gladiator Days" the first time; to the point that I would bear to say that I have never seen anything so disgusting in my entire life. Moreover, the stunning change in his buddy who was an accomplice in the crime, Eric Davis, was remarkable. Here is a fellow who looks and appears, in the latter portion of the video, to be sane, sensible, and a humble sort of guy. Perhaps Christ does work miracles.

Put into the same situation,...would any of us have done anything better or worse? Upon being threatened daily and given the choice, I could envision taking out some bastard that was going for me. What choice do you have? Prison is a cynical hell, and the kill or be killed aura cannot be dismissed. Troy Kell probably was more scared than anything; and out of that fear, ran a racist, hate-filled murder that is dispicable beyond words.

For Jimmy the Greek, very well said and you pose a question that the people on this website should honestly examine. There is no excuse for what Troy did, his choices put him in the situation he is in, but until you walk in someone else's shoes no one can say what they would or would not do. Human nature is fallen no one lives w/out stain from some kind of sin. I would hope in the same situation I would not behave the same way but w/out God in my life I would have nothing to keep me from relying completely on my instinct to survive at all cost. To answer your "perhaps Christ does work miracles", I assure you he does indeed.

Jesus, bunch of religious nuts on this site....

To Peter, I have only seen two references on this site even closely relating to "religion" so I am not sure what you have been reading. I am a christian and have a relationship with God but that does not make me a religious nut. I have read some crazy things on this site the least of them having to do with "religious nuts". It seems that maybe you have just had poor experiences with people who have beliefs other than yours, if you gave people a chance you may be surprised to find your belief is not always true.

Sorry nicknite. Honestly didn't mean to offend you. I respect your beliefs.

To Peter, I am not offended, thank you for offering your apology though. It just seemed you may have encountered some weird people who happened to be "religious" and I just wanted to let you know not all people who believe in God and Jesus are "nuts". That's all.

I think everyone makes interesting points throughout this discussion but what we all seem to forget is that WE DO NOT RESIDE IN PRISON. Yes, they calculated to kill Lonnie Blackmon but they are in jail; not walking around on the streets like you & I. What other choice do you have when your life is a constant struggle just to survive. Do you even realize what life is like for people in prison? Its not like on television, its pure hell. And yes most of these people deserve to be there. But do they deserve to be raped? Beaten? Or any of the other horrible acts that go on. When you go to prison, there's 2 sides: black & white. You're either on one side or the other. And you have to do what it takes to survive. You have no idea what transpired between Troy & Lonnie Blackmon before this incident. I've read court transcipts and other inmates testified that Blackmon was a huge threat to everyone, not just Troy. He was very violent and if he came after you, you were dead. So these men are just like caged animals and its survival of the fittest. I kill you or you kill me. Now, I've never committed a crime and am a productive member of society. But let me tell you, if I was put in the same situation, you better believe I would do the same thing. Would you thing different if he'd slit his throught instead? Killing is killing; including the death penalty. Would you think different if it wasnt videotaped? It would be just another prison killing and none of you would even know about it. Another point, the documentary doesn't show the ENTIRE 5 minutes of the FIGHT between Lonnie & Troy. They show a minute & a half of the stabbing and afterwards. YOu dont get to see how violent Lonnie was as well. They show what they want you to see. And while what Kell did was horrific, (and I'm not debating that), we should not judge until we walk in his shoes. 18 YEARS IN PRISON is hell on earth and if you want to live, you do what you have to do.

To Leanna;
You do not know what you're talking about. Kell needs to be executed. NOW. This society is better off without that scum.

Leanna, well put Girl !! I am curious as to how one gets a copy of the court transcripts, sounds like really interesting reading.

i belive in the death penalty. I also believe that if someone is guilty of murder then they should be put to death in the same manner aas how they commiteed the crime. For example; troy kell killed another man by stabbing him 67 times. Therefore he should be held down, and stabbed 67 times as well. That's what I believe.

Leanna, Good to see someone out there with a degree of true understanding of the real human being known as Troy Kell. As I stated previously, I have been on both sides of this fence we call justice. My husband was murdered in 81, I asked the district attorneys and courts not to have the individuals executed, they too were victims of poor parenting! I have worked very hard to raise my own children with the understand that it is truly never wrong to take a life but that God does forgive, if it is a life or death situation. I did remarry and have 6 other sons my visits to the prison did not stop until after my own grandson was born and was named after the grandfather he never got to see then I placed the decision to continue visiting or not into the hands of my oldest son, learning when to let go or I shall I say pass it on.

Just curious, what are the ages ranges here? Are most of us here old enough to make valid judgements?

Since Troys execution date has been set for July 28th, does anyone know the status of the appeal he has filed?

You can read the actual copy of the judgement against Troy at

http://courtlink.utcourts.gov/opinions/supopin/kell.htm
This was not what I was looking for, as of late his mail has been returned.

National Coalition to Abolish the Death Penalty information may be found at
www.ncadp.org

Here we go again. "Poor Troy". There is a solution to not having to endure the "horrors" of prison. Don't fucking kill someone! TeriInTexas....you are either a truly sympathetic soul or a functional moron. This guy is beyond repair. Wake up. He does not respect life anymore, his own or anyone else's. You really want to earn your liberal card.....work to help children in terrible situations so they don't feel like they have no options. The ironic thing is I honestly do feel sympathy for Troy Kell. He obviously is someone who could have gone a different route under more favorable circumstances but facts are facts. He is a killer. He was not "defending" himself when he took up crime....he wanted to watch another human being die just for the fuck of it. I sympathize for the Troy Kell who as a child obviously felt and received no love...or apparently not enough. I feel for those who tried to help him in those years and must feel frustration beyond belief that this is what has become of him. However, you know jack shit about him other than what most of us on this site know which is that he has become a stone cold killer. You don't have any moral obligation to worry about this asshole.....there are probably real people who have experience with him that spend serious time wishing they could have achieved what you never will with this guy. Again...you REALLY want to make an impact? Quit blathering on about a bunch of horseshit to justify your misguided intentions and work to make the world a better place. "Troy Kell" is a symptom....work to cure the disease.

THIS BLOG IS AMAZING TO ME, TROY COMMITTED THIS MURDER IN A PRISON WHERE I WORK. IT WAS PREMEDITATED. HE PUT OUT A MEDICAL REQUEST FOR BLACKMON SO THEY WOULD BE ESCORTED TOGETHER, HE WAS NOT DEFENDING HIMSELF IN FEAR. THIS MAY HAVE BEEN IN THE WORKS
FOR AWHILE, HOWEVER IF IT WAS, NO ONE REALLY KNEW ABOUT IT. WHEN IT OCCURRED WE WERE ALL SHOCKED, WE ARE BASICALLY A SATTELITE PRISON THAT IS FOR REHAB, WE HAVE EDUCATION AND ALL KINDS OF COUNSELING AND GROUPS AND LIVE IN REHAB PROGRAMS. KELL DID NOT WANT TO TAKE PART IN THESE SO HE WAS LEVELED DOWN AT HIS CHOICE AND LOCKED UP 24 HOURS A DAY, HE WAS A TROUBLE MAKER. HE DIDN'T SEEM TO BE A TYPE TO BE THREATENED, HE WAS THE LEADER OF THE PACK. OFFICERS CAN BE NEGLIGENT, BUT OUR OFFICERS
MOSTLY ARE REALLY GOOD PEOPLE. WHEN THIS ALL WENT DOWN, THEY
DID NOT IGNORE THE SITUATION AS MANY OF YOU HAVE IMPLYED, SWAT
WAS SUITING UP IN FULL RIOT GEAR TO BREAK UP THE FIGHT. (YOU WALK IN THERE WITH OUT PROTECTION! KELL WAS SWINGING A KNIFE AND HAD NO REMORSE AND A FULL ADRENALINE RUSH GOING) THERE WAS CIVILIAN VOLUNTEERS IN THE SECTION, THE OFFICER IN THERE GOT THEM OUT, HE DID EVERYTHING RIGHT. SORRY BLACKMON DIED, NO HE DID NOT DESERVE IT. KELL BY MANY OF YOU IS BEING PAINTED A VICTIM, HE IS THE PERPATRATOR. HE PLANNED MAGNIFICENTLY TO THE TEE. HE WAS TRADED FROM NEVADA AS HE WAS A TROUBLE MAKER DOWN THERE, THEY HOPED TO BREAK UP HIS GROUP AND MAKE IT MORE POSSIBLE TO HELP HIM. FACE IT, TROY BASICALLY IS LIVING THE LIFE HE WANTS. HE WAS MOVED TO DEATHROW IN ANOTHER UTAH PRISON AFTER THIS. OUR PRISON WAS ILL PREPARED FOR THE EVIL THAT THIS MAN COULD COME UP WITH. WE HAVE LEARNED FROM HIM THOUGH. NOW ALL CONTROL ROOMS ARE EQUIPED WITH VARIOUS WEAPONS SHOULD THIS TYPE OF CRIME OCCUR AGAIN. I FEEL FOR TROYS CHILDHOOD; HE COULD CHOOSE DIFFERENT HOWEVER.IF I KNOW ANYTHING, THIS MAN IS SMART. HE
GOT THE DEATH PENALTY, THEY TRIED HIM IN THE PRISON COURT ROOM AS HE KEPT THREATENING THE LOCAL AUTHORITIES, HE WAS A HIGH RISK.
HE IS NOT THE POOR BOY. THE STATED OF UTAH HAS THE DEATH PENALTY, SO HE GOT IT, I DON'T KNOW IF THAT IS RIGHT OR WRONG, BUT IT IS WHAT WAS DECIDED. HE IS NOT SORRY, HE TOLD AN OFFICER THAT "I COULD WIN AN ACADEMY AWARD FOR THE ACT I JUST DID ON THE STAND" HE WAS NOT FEARFUL, HE WAS BOASTFUL. "WHITE RULES" WAS HIS MOTTO, ON MANY OCCASIONS. HE GOT WHAT HE GOT, DON'T FEEL SAD FOR HIM. IT WAS HIS CHOICE. HE IS NOW AT A MORE SECURE PRISON, HE HAS SINCE MADE MANY ASSAULTS ON OTHER PRISONERS, HE IS NOT DIFFERENT. LET IT HAPPEN, IT IS WHAT HE WANTS, AND YES, HE STILL IS ALIVE.

CASS

To cass, I thank you for your post. I was one of the ones who thought the prison ought to be accountable. It seems that I may have been ignorant to the situation. Obviously, judgeing by what you posted there wasn't a lot anyone could do. I myself am glad that scum got the death penalty. I feel that the world is better off without Kell. I can't help feeling that way, but I do, and I feel he deserves to be put to death. I don't normally agree with the death penalty, but in his case I do. Anyway, thank you cass for your info.

TO REAL, for one I have been a victim of violent crime, my own husband was murdered. I have formed my opinions on life experiences and not by reading or responding to websites such as these either. I am curious like you as to the real life Troy Kell had as a child, face the facts in this case he should have never been inside the walls of an adult prison in the first place he was a teenager. I think his attorneys have a responsibility for that fact they could and should have advised he take the plea bargain offer, he would be out of prison right now, and Blackmon would possibly be alive as well. ALL HAVE THE BURDEN OF GUILT PARENTS ATTORNEYS JUDGES AND SOCIETY ITSELF

Cass i think you r lying about where you work......and if you are not i think you have been sexually intimate with troy and are trying to hide you lust for him by acting as a GUARD not TRAMP!!!!!!! WHITE POWER!!!!!!

To gunn: GROW UP!

just gotta say,that movie was awesome,i remember the video a few years ago,on one of those hidden video shows,and was disgusted then,and always wanted to know about the monster behind it,when i first seen him,i was stunned,total opposite of what i expected,i still dont know if i fully blame him,or not,but either way,im fascinated by him,and think he's a great subject for psychology/sociology professionals to study,at least maybe we can learn from him.that said,i believe the prisons have to be held accountable to some degree,those prisoners are their responsibilty,period.they know they're violent,and they know it exists,how is this still happening?!!!in jails and prisons everywhere??!!WHEN ARE POLITICIANS ,AMERICANS,CITIZENS GONNA STAND UP,AND SAY,ENOUGH,our society is only more endangered by allowing these depraved conditions to continue,if they need more dam guards,fuckin pay more guards,whats the problem?clearly the guards they got(i mean all prisons,not just utah)arent doin the job,cuz its the same stories everywehre,people gotta act tough,and fight to survive,l..now,my question is,how is this atmosphere possible in a ''secured enclosed facility?WHAT ARE THESEE LAZY GUARDS DOING?i know,their hangin out,chillin rappin,whatever,either hire more guards or better ones,not fat lazy bastards,jujitzu experts or somethin,lool,either way,politicains arent bringin it to anyones attention,maybe this movie at least will,we need better security in prison,every time i hear of a guy in prison getin raped,itsx usually by some ignorant moron,who'd never survive in prison,sayin he deserved it,shouldnt be there, no he didnt deserver it,being LOCKED INA CAGE IS PUNISHMENT,raped is unnec essary,we as a society need to apply much much more pressure to wardens,guards,etc to do their dam jobs,not house ''GLADIATOR BUILDINGS""

TO GUNN
I WORK WHERE I WORK, DO'S IT SCARE YOU? NOT ME, I WISH I COULD HELP THESE GUYS, SOME YOU CAN, SOME YOU CAN'T! WHAT I KNOW THE MOST ABOUT PEOPLE, YOU CAN'T MAKE THEM DO WHAT THEY DON'T WANT TO DO! TROY DOESNT WANT TO FUNCTION IN SOCIETY, NOTICE THE WORD WANT!

OH, AND GUNN, I AM NOT A GAURD, GO A LITTLE HIGHER UP ON THE CAREER LADDER, NOT TO SAY THE GAURDS, OR OFFICER I WOULD CALL THEM, WE NOT JUST PERFECT IN THIS SITUATION!

TO CASS: Curious to know if you do work inside the walls at a state prison, how did you manage to pass the literacy tests? You have had a lot of spelling errors in your posts, that is why I am really questioning the system now? How are we as a society able to educate and rehabilitate if we cannot have persons working inside supposed correctional facilities that are literate and capable of utilizing proper grammar and diction.

TERILIN, YOU ARE RIGHT, SPELLING IS NOT MY STRONG POINT, I DO WORK IN THE PRISON, I HAVE TWO COLLEGE DEGREES, APPARENTLY THEY
ARE LESS CONCERNED ABOUT SPELLING THAN YOU ARE. WHY ARE YOU SO ANGRY?

Hey Cass, I have no time in life for anger, that was mere observation.

Teri....you do intrigue me because you sound very intelligent and then POOF! You say something so moronic that it makes Beavis and Butthead look like Harvard graduates. Never should have been in an adult prison???? Teri, sweetheart, why did they call it the "show and tell" murder again? Can you please refresh....oh yeah....I remember. They called it that because this sick mother fucker was giving guided tours to the body. I worked in a juvenille facility during my college summers, no fucking way could they have housed this monster. He would have overrun both the staff and the younger and smaller detainees. Your point that he was a child is also good for a chuckle or two. Teri, as anyone over the age of 30 or so knows personally, back as recently as the 20's, 30's even somewhat into the 40's people the same age as (when he BRUTALLY MURDERED an innocent) "poor-little-boy-lost Troy" were holding down full-time jobs and starting families. So what you are saying is that as we advance chronilogically and technologically as a society, we should allow that we are less mature as people and therefore an 18 year old cannot be responsible for his actions? Teri, our family units are breaking down....that is why we are more "immature" as a country. Why is it that our grandfathers were considered "men" as early as 16 yet you want to give this jerk-off a pass? Again, I am liberal. I do believe in helping others. However, I also can recognize the obvious (which I am being reminded is not a gift shared by all). AGAIN....for whatever the reasons this guy is a fucking monster. Permanent lockdown or death...I actually don't like to see death as a solution but he is lucky to be alive. Focus on helping society not develop more of this shit. Oh yeah, I totally respect your faith and find it admirable but do everyone a favor ( and I mean everyone....not the "blog" everyone). Don't invoke Commandments when explaining a death penalty position. The whole argument then takes a turn for the idiotic as, and correct me if I am wrong here, most of the little critters on Death Row may have bent a Commandment or two themselves. Leave God out of it or on both sides.....this isn't gym class and you don't have the first pick.

"TO CASS: Curious to know if you do work inside the walls at a state prison, how did you manage to pass the literacy tests? You have had a lot of spelling errors in your posts, that is why I am really questioning the system now? How are we as a society able to educate and rehabilitate if we cannot have persons working inside supposed correctional facilities that are literate and capable of utilizing proper grammar and diction." Teri, since pointing out literary faux pas seems to be a hobby....this would not be classified as an "observation". You made statements that warranted response and your questioning was not rhetorical. Just thought I'd help. Cass, if in fact you did work in that prison (as smart as I like to think I am I cannot match those who can prove that by how you type) I do have a question. I am correct in assuming that most juvenille facilities are not equipped to handle a monster like this asshole. I know the one I worked at during college could not have handled someone like this. The point I am trying to make is this wasn't some poor little kid who made a mistake. There was no rehabilitation in existence for this guy.

Teri is almost as dumb as Kell. She probably wants to marry him. I don't take her seriously at all.

REAL, THANKYOU FOR YOUR HELP, AND YES YOU ARE RIGHT, JUVENILE FACILITIES ARE TOO LOOSE, AND APPARENTLY OUR FACILITY WAS TOO LOOSE, WE HAVE NOT HAD HIDIOUS CRIMES LIKE KELL IN THE LAST 10 YEARS, AND PART OF IT IS, KELL IS GONE, AND THE OTHER PART IS WE TIGHTENED UP AS WE LEARNED FROM KELL. AND, IF IT WILL COMFORT YOU KELL LOVERS, BLACKMAN WAS A SMARTASS AND DID TALK BACK TO KELL.....NOT SOMETHING THAT IS DONE AS HE WAS A MEAN BUGGER, BUT IT MAY BE WHY NO COMPASSION WAS SHOWN TO HIM.

ROBIN, THANK YOU ALSO, I FEEL AS THOUGH YOU GET IT, TERI, CONSIDER YOURSELF LUCKY THAT YOUR MAIL TO KELL IS COMING BACK.
THIS IS NOT A MAN YOU WILL WAKE UP NEXT TO.... AND I MEAN, PISS HIM OFF AND YOU WILL NOT WAKE UP. NOTICE HE LIKES REPETATIVE MOTION!!!!

To Cass,Real, and Robin-- First off Real I am not your sweetheart.

I am stating facts of record here. I do feel Troy Kell should remain in prison for the remainder of his days, but I do have empathy for what got him there to begin with. While we cannot change his past, it is not beyond reason even he could do something later in life to save another person from making the same mistakes he has made, as for any of you thinking I want to marry him that was the most childish statements I have read here yet. Not all of my mail has come back, and judging from Troys correspondence he is overwhelmed with letters from thousands of others. Has anyone here been doing any research on the fact that DNA proof has established an innocent man was executed recently!!! And it was beyond reasonable doubt... Look they offered Troy a plea bargain his attorney should have insisted he accept it.

By the way you all, there is not one day that I do not see the faces of the men who murdered my own husband in my mind, and I will never forget...

Have any of you actually sat inside the walls of a real court room? Gone through years of trial?

Teri-
Thanks for clearing up the "you not being my sweetheart" thing. Later on let me take the liberty of explaining "sarcasm" to you. Teri, first off....I feel great sadness for your loss and admire that you are able to function and move forward with your life. That being said, what in the blue hell does that have to do with you wanting to write Troy Kell? Draw me a picture....connect some dots....something! You address everyone who attacks your disjointed thoughts with something about your husband or a reference to the fact that you and you alone have personal experience with our court system. You are making this like some elementary school argument. You ask if any of us have been in courtrooms simply to bash someone. Cass is possibly someone who worked in the environment where this asshole is housed and that isn't good enough so why throw out more of your rhetorical crap? Your heart might be in the right place but the wiring upstairs is seriously on the fritz. Why do you feel it necessary to write this asshole out of all the people imprisoned around the world? What sparked something in you that made him worthy of your efforts? Please don't launch into a global "Jesus loves us all" answer. Point blank....why correspond and support Troy Kell specifically? There are those suffering "injustice" at the hands of the "justice" system....I want to know what makes you think this guy is special enough to write. Did you write Nelson Mandela? You bring up an innocent man recently executed and Troy Kell in the same sentence. Shame on you. Use your head....Troy Kell does not give a fuck about you or any other living breathing thing on this planet.

Teri obviously has, and still is supporting Kell because she's attracted to him. I believe that she is one of those women who seeks romances with prisoners. She thinks Kell is cute so she supports him.

I am not a "supporter" of Troy Kell, nor do I wish to write to him in prison, yadda yadda yadda. However, I do feel as though he did have a bad childhood and some people can't cope with having been abused. My husband and his brother were both raised in a horribly abusive home, both molested by different family members, both beaten and abandoned by their mother. But, my husband vowed very early in life that he would have a family and he would be a good father, husband and provider. And he truly is a fabulous person. Now his brother is a different story, he is abusive, a drug addict, an alcoholic and just has this rage in him. He is incarcerated right now, as a matter of fact. So, I do believe that there comes a time where you have to become responsible for your own behavior and stop blaming people for your misfortune and just move the hell on with your life. Well, my brother-in-law, has not been able to do that. He is 27 years old. And with knowing him, and being able to see the good in him, I can still see how he could possibly, especially being incarcerated, commit a crime like Troy Kell did. I don't think Troy Kell deserves to die, I don't believe in the death penalty. But, on the same note, I wouldn't want him walking the streets either. He deserves to be in prison. And I think "Teri" is just looking to Troy for some understanding for what he has done because she did lose a loved one to a violent crime. And some people think that if they can understand "why" some of these murderers do the things that they can do, that they can make sense of the horrible tragedy that happened to them. If that makes any sense to anyone.

Thanks Guardian for putting into words what even I have not been able to do.

Gaurdian-
Well put. Excellent in fact. We don't have to agree, however you cannot dispute logic. You definitely make some valid and sound points.....HOWEVER. Follow Teri's posts. They are disjointed at best and it does not shock me at all that she would piggyback your ideas. This whole recent thread was initiated by some of her more moronic comments. She criticizes correctional facilities, she claims 18 year olds are "children" (implying that society has some sense of responsibility for Troy's initial act), she rambles on about how Troy should have took a plea agreement, etc. Should she be seeking some enlightenment on her own situation by communicating with this fuck, she definitely has not laid the groundwork for that as a reason by her previous ramblings. I find this post interesting because it is a sensitive issue and there are a lot of intelligent concepts and good discussion points going back and forth. To date, however Teri's posts seem more along the lines of what Robin has referred to them as. She does not answer any direct challenge to her ideas, rather she blathers on disjointly. Again, I disagree on a personal level with some of what you said but respect your logic.

That's twice now that someone has said Troy was giving a guided tour of the body - when nothing is further from the truth.

It's just amagizing how people make things up.

The documentary even shows a TV reporter saying: the police say the 3 suspects spent a week going back and forth in a grizzly show and tell.

I wonder what police said that because, from what I know, no one but sandy brought anyone to see the body. And she only brought one boy [when he didn't believe her] and he later brought her back with one of her girl-friends when she didn't believe them.

So much for the big show and tell.

Hey grey, who cares???? The bottom line is that Kell is where he deserves to be, and so is sandy.

Robin,

I suspect a lot of people care about the TRUTH.

If anything, 'truth' should be the "bottom line" - because without the truth there is only ignorance.

Hey Grey, the TRUTH is that there should be no tolerance for what Kell did. BOTTOM LINE. The fact that they, may or may not have shown their trashy friends what he he did is irrelevent to the fact that the world is better off without him.

Grey-
Why are you focusing on whether he give guided tours to the body or not? Please elaborate on why that matters? The only way I see if it matters is if he did then he is a REALLY sick fuck; if he didn't then he is just a sick fuck. Where is the "bottom line" in your statements? The guy is a murderer....correct? He killed someone for the hell of it...correct? I am not busting on you, I am seriously curious as to where you are going with that line of thought.

I made the point [about how the facts were MISREPRESENTED] because the 'show and tell' claims greatly affected the case - not so much for Troy but for Sandy (who was tried separately, with neither Troy nor the other co-defendant ever testifying at her trial).

Sandy was plainly vilified for having shown the body to her 2 friends (when they didn't believe her) after prosecutors used that fact to create a hysteria over it.

But she was [in fact] a child who had been traumatized by several acts of violence that she experienced.

At 13 she witnesses a 4 person murder suicide. One woman was shot in the head as she was talking to her. She then found her girlfriend's mother on the floor with a bullet hole between her eyes.

A year later she sees a boy shoot a girl in the back of the head.

Subsequently her neighbor killed himself with a shotgun, and she runs to the house to remove the young children before they could see their father in that state.

So, when Troy shot Kelly, she not only had a child's mental development - but she was also suffering from a psychological stress disorde that her actions were not inconsitent with.

There was another LV murder case in which it was alleged that a 17 year old girl lured a 15 year old into the desert so her friends could beath him to death with a crow bar; and that the children then laughed about it in school.

Do you know what prison time that girl got?
None.

...and the only difference I can see is in the degree of misrepresentation that occurred - either by misrepresenting the fact or..... concealing the facts.

Grey....ummmmmmm....ok.....again.....I am still confused by why any of this matters. The amount of "showing" or "telling" does not seem to coincide with the "fact" that they set a guy up and then killed him. I do agree with you that trauma as children is often why people turn out like this but IN NO FUCKING WAY WHATSOEVER does it absolve them or should it "lighten" their sentence in any way shape or form. No excuses can be made for crimes like these. The root problem is the family structure in this country. We need to quit putting band-aids on gaping wounds. As far as when these kids get old enough (and folks, sorry, 18 is fucking old enough to know right from wrong as far as killing someone goes...if you think otherwise you are wrong and an idiot) I do not know the solution...more stringent "halfway houses"... more of a "club fed" environment if rehabilitation is evident.... but if you take a life the way these people did then no way do you ever release them back into the world. I have read up on that Sandy Shaw and again, I feel for her situation but you have to draw a line somewhere. I don't believe that line may necessarily be of the "eye for an eye" variety....but certain acts have to exclude you from ever getting to play with others. I don't think there is a whole lot of "grey" area in this case (pun intended).

Grey, like teri, is way off the mark, and has a totally empty argument about nothing really whatsoever.

Robin,

What 'argument' of mine is empty?
I have seen a lot of people come on the Net and profess to have been friends of either Troy or Sandy - only to see them get the various names and events wrong; proving them to be IMPOSTERS.

My only argument is that the TRUTH has not always been told (or has been withheld).

Real,

I'm not saying that anyone should be absolved for their actions. But it is proper and just for certain circumstances to mitigate and diminish the punishment.- especially for younger children.

Sandy had just turned 15 when she met Kelly. And given the nature of her truama, I doubt she had any normal sence of reality - and not by her fault.

I personally feel little compassion for Kelly, because he was involving himself with a minor child.

And considering what the Canadian Mounties had to say in their report, I feel even less compassion - unless he too was also a victim of negative parental influence.

Grey.....my misunderstanding. You were making more of an observation than a point of argument. Sorry, it's just that when people like Teri start throwing out their otherworldly theories you get used to it. Sorry for the misunderstanding. Again, I do not necessarily agree with where you are heading with that line of thought, but I respect the logic. Good post.

Real,

Thanks, but no need to appologise for anything..

IMHO the Troy Kell story is just one in tens of thousands of such tragedies. Bit it does afford an excellent example to learn from.

I know that Sandy's story has be shown to children in correctional programs - with a degree of success.

One case worker wrote her describing how even the boys cried as they watched her story.

Interestingly the case worker described the children saying they could not relate to Troy's actions, but that they greatly related to Sandy; and were quite touched that she took the time to personally write them.

One element that I persoanlly find disturbing is how children are treated in America when tried as adults.

Compared to adults, children are:

1.44 more likel to be convicted;
1.7 time more like to be sent to state prison;
and will be given sentences that are 31% longer.

Of children convicted of murder, 77% are sent to prison - but 100% of the FEMALE children are sent to prison.

Dispite what the documentary indicated, Sandy was sentenced to 2 consecutive life terms without parole.

I DON'T KNOW MUCH ABOUT SANDY, BUT EVERYTHING I HAVE READ, AND I READ THIS STUFF! SHE IS UP FOR PAROLE SOON, LIKE THIS YEAR! NOT THAT SHE WILL GET OUT, BUT SHE DID NOT GET LIFE SENTENCES.
LOOK UP SANDY SHAW, NEVADA STATE PRISON.

Not that it is relevent or anything, but i thought that sandy met troy when they were kids and they grew up together?

They did grow up together. Thats how they became so close and he became so overprotective.

Guardian,

Sandy met Kelly (not Kell) shortly after her 15th birthday.

Cass,

Re: Sandy and parole.

Her orginal "punishment" was 2 consecutive life terms without parole. But after many years of appealing, the court changed her sentence to include parole. She was paroled on the primary murder charge after 12 years, but is presently serving a second life sentence [an enhanced sentence that is only supposed to be imposed upon a finding that a person uses a weapon].

However, IMHO that second sentence is being illegally imposed because it lacks that statutory requisite contingency of a jury finding [that the person used a weapon].

If you look [for example] at the jury instructiion in the Sarah Johnson case in Idaho (of a teen accused of murdering her parents) the jury instruction correctly asks the jury to determine if Sarah Johnson used a weapon,

But in Sandy's trial, the jury instruction (to determine WUDW) merely asked the jury to determine "if a deadly weapon was used in the commission of this crime".

An afirmative reply could merely mean that the weapon was deadly; or that a deadly weapon was used - but not necessarily that she used it.

NRS states that the "imposition" of the additional WUDW penalty "is contingent upon a finding of the prescribbed fact" i.e. if the person used a weapon.

This is just one of many examples of violations of due process that went overlooked.

Sandy would not have been elligible for several more years, because she has only served about 6 years of her second 10 to life sentence. Under NY parole guidelines, she would not be eligible until she served that 10 year minimum.

But the Nevada Board of Pardons recently commuted her sentence to make her "immediately eligible" for parole.

But, when she went to the Parole Board, they turned her down and told her to come back in 3 years.

That would leave her in prison longer than all but 2 or 3 woman who committed murder in NV. There are women who have been on death row who got paroled in less years after a pardon.

The Parole Board has flat out refused to explain the reason for their denial. But seems IMHO apparent that they applied her original (uncommuted sentence) when calculating the factors that determine parole eligibility.

Her original sentence is what made her ineligible for parole to begin with - and that was exactly the reason she went to the Board of Pardons.

As best as I can tell, the Parole Boards guidelines effectively pre-ignored the Board of Pardons 'commutation' to allow eligibility.

Those guidelines treated her NO DIFFERENTLY after the Baord of Pardon's commutation than they did before.

So where was the commutation????????

Guardian,

Sandy met Kelly (not Kell) shortly after her 15th birthday.

Cass,

Re: Sandy and parole.

Her orginal "punishment" was 2 consecutive life terms without parole. But after many years of appealing, the court changed her sentence to include parole. She was paroled on the primary murder charge after 12 years, but is presently serving a second life sentence [an enhanced sentence that is only supposed to be imposed upon a finding that a person uses a weapon].

However, IMHO that second sentence is being illegally imposed because it lacks that statutory requisite contingency of a jury finding [that the person used a weapon].

If you look [for example] at the jury instructiion in the Sarah Johnson case in Idaho (of a teen accused of murdering her parents) the jury instruction correctly asks the jury to determine if Sarah Johnson used a weapon,

But in Sandy's trial, the jury instruction (to determine WUDW) merely asked the jury to determine "if a deadly weapon was used in the commission of this crime".

An afirmative reply could merely mean that the weapon was deadly; or that a deadly weapon was used - but not necessarily that she used it.

NRS states that the "imposition" of the additional WUDW penalty "is contingent upon a finding of the prescribbed fact" i.e. if the person used a weapon.

This is just one of many examples of violations of due process that went overlooked.

Sandy would not have been elligible for several more years, because she has only served about 6 years of her second 10 to life sentence. Under NY parole guidelines, she would not be eligible until she served that 10 year minimum.

But the Nevada Board of Pardons recently commuted her sentence to make her "immediately eligible" for parole.

But, when she went to the Parole Board, they turned her down and told her to come back in 3 years.

That would leave her in prison longer than all but 2 or 3 woman who committed murder in NV. There are women who have been on death row who got paroled in less years after a pardon.

The Parole Board has flat out refused to explain the reason for their denial. But seems IMHO apparent that they applied her original (uncommuted sentence) when calculating the factors that determine parole eligibility.

Her original sentence is what made her ineligible for parole to begin with - and that was exactly the reason she went to the Board of Pardons.

So it seems that the Parole Boards guidelines effectively pre-ignored the Board of Pardons 'commutation' to allow eligibility because....

...Their guidelines treated and measured her NO DIFFERENTLY after the Board of Pardon's commutation than they did before.

So where was the commutation????????

to grey, who cares about Sandy? Let her stay in prison. I'm glad she was denied parole. She doesn't deserve to be set free. And by the way, has troy kell been executed yet? Please tell me he has...

Robin,

Form your prior comments you apparently think that anyone (without distinction) convicted of a crime deserves what they get.

On that basis you must also feel that Jesus got what he deserved.

After all, he was duely tried, convicted, and sentenced by a proper court of jurisdiction.

Sorry, i misread what u wrote. here is what is says on the nevada state prison site for Sandy Shaw.

That she was paroled for her murder in the 1st degree conviction and that her sentence is still active for use of a deadly weapon enhancement. She is eligible for parole for that in Dec of 2007.

http://www.doc.nv.gov/ncis/detail.php?idnum=24126

Grey, I don't believe that EVERYONE who is convited of a crime is guilty. But I DO KNOW that Troy Kell and Sandy ARE guilty, and they both deserve, and will thankfully, die in prison. As for Jesus, I am not a religious man, but I am sprititual, and I certainly respect those who are religious. Having said that, I think for you to compare jesus, or anyone else, to these poor, sad, white trash, wastes of life is absurd, and completely unfair to Jesus. That stupid, and irresponsible comparison just shows once again how empty, and off the mark your argument really is.

Grey-
I must agree with Robin. Throwing the greatest individual (Jesus) to ever walk the Earth into a discussion of these two killers is irresponsible at best. We all accept that the justice system is flawed. John Grisham hit it on the head in A TIME TO KILL when the defense lawyer says he believed we are all equal in the eyes of the law until he realized that those "eyes" were human "eyes". Thus until we can view each other as equal, really treat each other as JESUS would have liked, then of course our systems will have flaws. That said, these two are seriously lucky to be alive. To have the ability to bargain for their lives. We bemoan the system for its mistreatment of these criminals....what about the freedoms they enjoy? After killing someone? Thank God for their sakes we don't exist in an eye-for-an-eye society. We wouldn't even be discussing this. You have stressed that Sandy endured horrific trauma in her developmental years (which I agree with) that probably led to her murderously poor judgement.....well then how can we consider discussing parole? Has that trauma been washed away? Do we know that beyond a reasonable doubt? What if she came into a situation in the world again that asked her to make an important decision? Would the ghosts of her past influence her judgement? You are getting quick to slam the judicial system yet you are blowing past a lot of very valid reasons that she should stay locked up.

Robin,

I never compared Sandy or Troy to Jesus. I only said that Jesus was tried, convicted and duely sentenced - in response anyone who thinks that a conviction equates to absolute guilt [of a fair trial with due process].

I assumed you think that way because of your replies to me like "Who cares about sandy. Let her stay in prison."

Otherwise, what the basis of your knowledge for concluding about her?

Real,

I'm sure you would agree that there are many degrees of culpability as well as redemption.

As with Robin, I wonder what you know that would lead you to conclude she should not be paroled in the same manner as have many adult women convicted of murder in NV?

The fact that this all happened when she was a child is a valid reason to conclude that things should be different, now that she has grown into an adult.

A child's ability to be rehabilitated is the VERY reason we do not execute children. And their youth is the VERY reason that we are supposed to recognize they have less culpability for their actions.

The U.S. Supreme Court has said:

“But youth is more than a chronological fact, it is a time and condition of life when a person may be most susceptible to influence and psychological damage.” [Emphasis added] Thompson v. Oklahoma, 487 U.S. 815 (1988) (USSC+)
 
“This Court has already endorsed the proposition that less culpability should attach to a crime committed by a juvenile than to a comparable crime committed by an adult, since inexperience, less education, and less intelligence make the teenager less able to evaluate the consequences of his or her conduct.”
 
“Given this lesser culpability, as well as the teenager’s capacity for growth and society’s fiduciary obligations to its children, the retributive purpose underlying the death penalty is simply inapplicable to the execution of a 15-year-old offender.”

Real,

Remember the NV case I mentioned in which it was alleged that a 17 year olf girl lured a 15 year old boy into the desert where her friends beat him to death with a crow bar; and it was claimed that the childrren laughted about it at school - and she only got 5 years probabtion?

And then there is another NV case of a woman who newspapers said admitted to helping her husband who raped and murdered 10 young girls [some as young as 13 and 14]. And she received a 17 year flat sentence and is now completetly free [not even on parole]?

If these two women can be free in society, why doesn't a child like Sandy deserve a chance to be on parole - or even free like them?

Grey-
I will concede that Sandy should get another shot at life if you concede that you can't just parole her and turn her loose on society. I know what parole is, what I mean is that there should be some more defined "halfway house" system with very limited basic-type liberties and see how she would function in that environment. You have to remember, at the end of the day we don't have any clue how culpable Sandy was because the simple fact of the matter is we weren't there. She could be every bit the animal Kell is, though her efforts in prison to educate herself and participate in programs would suggest otherwise (Kell lovers....it is well-documented in numerous areas that Troy has refused all manner of assistance programs while in prison). "Probation" or "Parole"....I am just not buying it under the current conditions. I don't have the exact answer....but I think there should be some more defined measures of someone's "rehabilitation"....especially when you are talking murder here. Screw precedent, I am throwing out opinions.

I can tell you that there are women convicted of murder who have served less years and have been paroled. Upon return to prison they were written up for failing drug tests and other serious matters - and were parolled yet again, and again.

Measure that type of behavior against this:
serverscs.net/hf/2525.html

Grey-
You are losing me here. You are really starting to sound like a Sandy "fan". There are numerous people who are probably "less guilty" than originally thought or are now "rehabilitated". My arguments center around what to do with the system. I appluad Sandy's accomplishments but let's take them at face value. She can either attend these things or sit in her fucking cell all day looking for shit to get into like Kell did (Kell lovers look at Grey's list, this is a sample of what that guy chose NOT to participate in). Again, I respect her making that choice to better herself, but fuck Grey....millions of us do it every day and we haven't killed anyone. I don't give a rat's ass if she is a "model" prisoner, is she a "model" citizen? My point, AGAIN, is that the system needs some sort of litmus test beyond the prison walls for people who might be rehabilitated before just thrusting them back into a mix that they haven't been a part of most of their lives. You think Sandy is ready for society? She doesn't even know what the hell that is! You are really missing the point. I do respect her efforts and believe people can change, but you cannot take someone who did that crime and has been locked away her entire adult life and then flip a switch and throw her back into society at large. Unfortunately for her I think that is why she keeps getting denied. She needs some sort of transitional facility and either one doesn't exist or the parole board doesn't feel it would be beneficial. Let's discuss the issue at large , not bring out the "yea, but she did this" argument. Remember Grey, when you try to get specific about ALL of the FACTS of her case, "the truly wise person is the one who knows what they do not know".

Real,

I'm a bit confused about your position, because (on one hand) you are asking for a 'litmus test' that will lend assurance that a person like Sandy will not reoffend.

But yet you reject [as proof] her substantial efforts to develope into a worthwhile human-being.

Do not those efforts account for some worth in regard to your concern?

I agree that someone who has lived in prison since they were a child is going to need a lot of help re-acclimating. But, then, there are a lot of people who would help her.

Ironically, I think it is the parole system's constraints that would likely present the worse detriment and obstacle her success. For example, I assume it would likely require her to live in Las Vegas or NV. I don't think a place known as 'Sin City' is the best place for someone like her. Do you?

I must, however, agrue with your statement that:
"we don't have any clue how culpable Sandy was because the simple fact of the matter is we weren't there."

Actually, there are several clues [aside from her lesser culpability by age and traumatized psychology]

1) Her version of what happened closely matches the one the other boy (Troy's friend) told, which prosecutors said scored highly truthful under the polygraph [and which was the very reason they agreed to give him a lesser sentence].

2) Troy also gave 2 affidavits attesting to her and his friend's lesser involvment - saying that he was the sole shooter and that Sandy didn't know of his intent to kill Kelly or that he brought a gun.

3) One of the trial witnesses also wrote Sandy a letter [right after the trial] saying that he only said what he did because the prosecutor threatened him with more jail time if he did not say what he did; and that he knew she didn't shoot Kelly because she originally told him what happened, and Troy also told him what happened.

4) Newpapers also reported how the NV justices were considering censuring that prosecutor for his improper behavior in several other murder trials.

Would you not agree that it's hardly fair to assign the most extreme contentions of culpability to someone who never received a fair trial. I can give you a list of about 20 elements that, IMHO, suggets violations of due process and law in Sandy's trial and sentencing.

But I understand your point that, in general, a lot of inmates get paroled and go right back to committing the same crimes.

However, do you really see Sandy as typical in that sence?

I know that, in prison, inmates learn to do a lot of not so honest things to get by and survive. But I also know that Sandy has a good side to her heart.

The point is that others have been paroled who served less time and whose crimes were worse. So why not her?

IMHO, one reason she was not paroled is because of the all the media attention her case received, under fuel of unproven claims - and that the resulting public perception of her was repeatedly re-enforced by 20 years repeting those same claims (as if fact).

Meanwhile, there are a lot of elements to this story that were never shown or told.

Real,

Just one further explanation...RE: seeming like a "Sandy fan"

My reasons for voicing support for her derives, first, from a perception that a lot of unscrupulous if not illegal acts occurred, and have gone ignored or covered up, in her case, on the part people intrusted with upholding our laws in a manner betters society.

IMHO, to do otherwise undermines the very heart and struicture of our system of law and equal protection.

That said, there is also the question and issue of why a child should be punished more severly than many adults whose crimes were as serious or worse.

After that, yes, Sandy has demonstrated many positive reasons to show her clemency; and therefore is deserving of suport.

If we do not reward good behavior - then the only lesson people learn is that it does not pay to do good either.

Grey-
You make some sound points. What should her "release" consist of? I cannot and will not argue with logic....and you have made some logical points. As I said in an earlier post, this is a highly sensitive issue with many sides. There are points that we will just flat not agree on with both arguments being equally strong. I would be interested to hear what you think should (in your opinion) happen to her.

Real,

I appreciate your open mindedness.

Personally, I'm not sure it would really make any difference whether Sandy were on parole or completely free - because she would be sufficiently free, in either case, to do whatever she will do.

Consequently I think it would be better to afford her the greatest freedom, to let her be all that she can be (not steal a phrase) - and let her re-assimilate with all the help she can get. God knows she will need every bit of it.

I know there are many people who would lend her positive support and influence, were she able to accept it. But I think the constraints of parole work contrarily in this instance.

I personally hoped they would have commuted her sentence to a fixed 30 term and let this tragedy fade; especially as it has tended to be everything from a pandora's box to a can of worms.

what happened to the subsequent posts?

This is for Real:

Are you for real? I don't even see how you are bringing up Jesus in your speech. Jesus would be the first one to forgive, the first one to give a second or hundredth chance! Jesus died on the cross for all of our sins and sickness, his blood covers all things. You may want to research more before you cast your stones. I am not trying to be mean I am just so tired of people using Jesus's name in inappropriate ways.

This is for Real:
Disreguard the previous posting b/c I read some of your other opinions and realize that you are not a christian anyway.

first off i would like to say im a bit confused by this forum,i read online that troy kell was executed in june of 2003, but here you all speak as if hes still awaiting his finality. would someone clear this up please?
with that said, i would like to state that in my opinion many of you writing about how it doesnt matter what kind of environment he grew up in or the torture he endured, should really take this in. ive pulled up some statistics on the matter at hand which i think we could ALL learn from.
84% of all prisoners currently in our system have endured at leats 3 types of abuse as children.
and 63% of all inmates who have served were proved to have developed serious psychological disorders upon theyre 6th year of confinement, the most common being schizophrenia,and paranoia.
please understand i am in no way making excuses for him nore am i a "bleeding heart liberal" im just trying to help everyone see things from different perspectives, its easy to sit back on your leather sofa with your ice cold beer in your hand comfy and cozy and decide what you think is right about a situation, and draw opinions and conclusions about people youll never encounter in your life,just by watching HBO but if youre going to go so far as to post "your opinion" please make sure it really is your opinion, and not the one society has sculpted you to believe.
thannk you for hearing me out, maybe you should do the same for the thousands of inmates that are being treated like dogshit.

Wow! The missing blog segments have been restored.

kondie,

Well said.
Sadly, not eveyone is blessed with the chance combination of life experiences and brain physiology that results in a well ballanced person.

IMHO, it is as irrational to seek vengence and retribition against people, whose lives are not so blessed, as it is to punish a naturally predatory animal for it's violent acts.

An intelligent response would be to apply humane treatment and rehabilitation. But we, in this country, do not do that; do we?

Our response seems, more generally, to continue the disfunction, promote the connected industries, and maintain the financial drain of money (to treat the symptom rather than the cause).

grey,
i completely agree and further more id venture to say that 99%of the people posting such comments have never known anyone to ever go to prison,and have never been themselves so can never truly relate to what really goes on in there, not to say that you shouldnt be punished for a crime against someone, but the soul reason for a prison is punishment and rehabilitation, they are truly getting punished but not so much rehabilitated. when you watch something on television about some innocent person getting raped or killed and you think to yourself how could someone do that? they must be sick in the head! well youre exactly right they are sick in the head, but they wont get better just by getting locked up, just like any other disease you need treatment to cure, if nothing else contain the symptoms. thats not whats going on, my brother is a prison guard and he tells me on a regular basis how these people(and yes they are still people)get beaten, and humiliated and abused on a regular basis, not only by other inmates but by the guards themselves, and if the authority figures are doing it, how can you expect the prisoners not to do the same thing? its a complete "do as i say not as i do" situation, and that in any case is wrong.

You hit the nail on the head when you observe that it is fundamentally wrong and hipocritical for authority figures to participate in wrongful acts - because even the appearance of impropriety undermines public trust in government.

People tend to not care about inmates until they or someone in their family becomes one. They think it can't happen to them. But if it can happen to Martha Stewart, or a sitting governor, it can happen to anyone.

Just seen a documentary on Troy Kell. Has a new execution date been set? Is he still determined to have a firing squad?

just watched the doc on troy kell and read through everyones comments... (well, not everyones...its late and im abit tired!)im shocked and abit upset by what ive seen tonight...i dont know if i agree with the death penalty...i would feel a fool to comment on something i know such little about. i feel sad for everyone involved and know i will find it hard to sleep tonight.

The death sentence is a complicated issue, I am generally against it, because of the possibility of an innocent man being executed, obviously that is not the case here, the killing was filmed. I understand, if Kell had not killed Blackmon, Blackmon would have tried to kill him. But that does not make 67 stab wounds ok!!! There are arguments for and against, if executed the state is saved the cost of his continued incarceration, the family of the victim are given a sense of closure, on the other hand, how can it be right for one person to be told 'you cannot kill, it is forbidden, so we are gonna kill you!!!' I don't think there is another way, a way to satisfy everyone, if he is not executed he must NEVER be released, that much is certain. As for how he got there, certainly his upbringing took him some of the way, prison life probably took him the rest of the way, but at the end of the day, isn't prison punishment and shouldn't it be tough? There should be more protection against drugs and sexual predators, for sure, but it is not a holiday camp.

The thing that troubles me the most is that the accomplice, Eric, 'found god' and cheated the death sentence. It was premeditated, Kell may be the one who actually caused the fatal injuries, but the way Eric arranged for Blackmon to be there, the way he held him down, the way he seemed so pleased with himself afterwards, if Kell deserved the death sentence, then so did Eric. At the end of the day, the saddest thing of all is that the families and friends of all three men will have to live on once this has been resolved, and nothing will ever truly be resolved for them. Blackmon is dead, Kell will die and I wouldn't be surprised if Eric gets his from a fellow prisoner. It is a mad world we live in.

i thought sandy shaw won the 1967 eurovision song contest with 'puppet on a string'.whats she doing in prison she had such a lovely voice.

In many ways but to a lesser degree i have walked in the same shoes as Troy Kell and ended up in Albany top security prison as the youngest inmate at 19yrs old (Inmates have to be 21yrs old in the UK to enter an adult prison).I was involved in prison riots white on black, Attacks on other inmates with lumps of wood while they slept, over something as trivial as being short changed over a piece of cake at meal service and so it went on. Onetime i had three warders take me out of isolation to the toilet block and ask me how tough am i now without my gang as they wrapped chains around their knuckles, I headbutted the first and no doubt you can guess the rest.
The point i make is that if you are raised without love,affection and in constant turmoil as a child this later manifests itself into a hatred and distrust for all.I can see through kell's eyes and understand why, I am 53yrs old now still a little bit bitter but i have a family and eventually wised up.I pray this man is spared and allowed to live out his life with dignity and forgiveness.

I have read alot of these comments and i am surprised by alot of the reactions. Yes he brutally stabbed another inmate but this doesnt mean he deserves the death penalty. I believe he should remain in prison for the rest of his life and have no chance of parole. Some of you who state he should be killed should take a look at other cases where you havent seen the video tape and seen the interviews etc such as the harold shipman case. The doctor that killed 250 INNOCENT UNARMED HELPLESS people who ranged from 41 to 83!years old. people like that are the true evil types in this world!! he was their gp, the guy you go to and trust to help make you better! when compared to cases like kell`s it makes you view them in a different light!

I'm so glad I found this thread because I truly found the footage of Kell stabbing Blackmon extremely disturbing. Not for a long time has something affected me like that. I think this is a truly unique case and I would advocate the execution of Kell simply for the fact that I think he is too dangerous to be on this planet, even in prison. I don't think the notion of punishment can be applied in this case - being Troy Kell is punishment enough so for his own good maybe death is the answer. Unfortunately we live in a world where we have to find general moral prinicples that can be applied to law so it does split the debate into for or against the death penalty. I am of the opinion that Troy is a psychopath - he just has an urge to kill - and does kill for whatever reason which is a result of his upbringing (though of course a bad upbringing does not always result in someone becomming a psychopath - but it happens). I was not convinced by Kells' remorsefulness as an absolution but I guess that at times he does feel like that for Backmon and moreover for his own sad, soiled life. I can't begin to debate the pros and cons of the death penalty becaause it is such a complicated issue but at the moment it is used in Utah State and thus Kell should executed.

i really find it hard to understand why anyone who has seen the footage of what kell did, and the total lack of remorse he portrays, believes he should be able to carry on in this life. He planned and carried out the executions of two men who had no defence to his brutality, how can anyone justify that? why should he have the right to a life when he took that of two others?? some people may feel that being incarcenated with no priveledges is not a life but the two men he killed have not got that choice. He knew and understood what the state law was with regards murder before he commited the atrocities and he made a choice then to accept his own fate,and if that meant the death penalty so be it. i personally feel he has got a easy way out, perhaps him getting stabbed 67 times would be more appropriate.Finally to all those of you who believe he should be given a THIRD chance WHY??? i will never understand why you believe he should be allowed to walk, talk or breathe, we all have choices to make in our lives and thankfully only a very small number choose murder as one of theres.He deserves what he gets and it cannot come soon enough GOOD RIDDANCE i shall not shed a single tear or have any sympathy. The evil b*****d.

i really find it hard to understand why anyone who has seen the footage of what kell did, and the total lack of remorse he portrays, believes he should be able to carry on in this life. He planned and carried out the executions of two men who had no defence to his brutality, how can anyone justify that? why should he have the right to a life when he took that of two others?? some people may feel that being incarcenated with no priveledges is not a life but the two men he killed have not got that choice. He knew and understood what the state law was with regards murder before he commited the atrocities and he made a choice then to accept his own fate,and if that meant the death penalty so be it. i personally feel he has got a easy way out, perhaps him getting stabbed 67 times would be more appropriate.Finally to all those of you who believe he should be given a THIRD chance WHY??? i will never understand why you believe he should be allowed to walk, talk or breathe, we all have choices to make in our lives and thankfully only a very small number choose murder as one of theres.He deserves what he gets and it cannot come soon enough GOOD RIDDANCE i shall not shed a single tear or have any sympathy. The evil b*****d.

Just saw the documentary. Don't know why it affected me so much but I recorded it and will watch it again. Am veering from feeling that the system failed Troy and thinking that he was just born bad. It seems madness to sentance an 18 year old to life in Prison without Parole - what sort of person is he expected to grow into?

Some people seem to get by in men's prisons without getting into much trouble. But I doubt anyone gets by without ever incurring some form of threat from either a predatory inmate or degrading treatment from a malicious guard.

The inherent violent aspect U.S. men's prisons was made BALTANTLY clear in the opening scenes of Gladiator Days - when it showed the Texas prison guards making transferee inmates crawl naked on the floor while they steped on them and allowed dogs to bite them.

I would not expect any person, no less a prison inmate, to behave humanely when they are being treated so inhumanely.

So without being in the mix of the causal events - I also don't know how anyone can really judge what happened between Troy and Blackmon; other than to acknowledge the tragic nature of it all.

David:
When you say he executed 2 men who had no defence to his brutality...
How so?

I thought that Troy intervened in some dispute between Blackmon and another inmate - and thereby was threatened by Blackmon.

Likewise, Kelly was an adult male (albeit he was only in his early twenties) who had involved himself with a 15 year old emotionally traumatized minor.

Granted, there were likely better ways to handle trhe matters, than to kill. But then (to me), neither of these 2 character's activities seem laudable or innocent - such that they should be portrayed as if they were.

grey;
what i meant by no defence was that he firstly shot a unarmed man 6 times in the face at close range!
then planned and carried out the attack on blackmon who he knew was still handcuffed, had no means of defending himself and had someone holding him down!! as for kell the only reason i understand that the problem between himself and blackmon came about was because of his racial hatred for anyone non-white. it wasnt his argument but because he believes he is some white god he couldnt help but get involved. i am not condoning anything that the two victims did or were about but the brutality and conviction kell showed in both the murders was to me the act of a monster. if anything other than human had killed so brutally it would have been hunted and slayed without delay. i believe his actions on those two occasions remove any right to humanity or justice and nothing less than the death penalty would punish someone who planned,plotted and carried out the murders then... tried to justify them!

David,

I see your point, in that his actions are extreme.

I don't recall what insight Eric gave, if any, as to the specifics of the conflict between Troy and Blackmon. But knowing and considering the all the true facts would seem necessary to form any valid judgement as to how monsterous his action were in the instance.

hate made the monster, but love can redeem him. he's been condemned enough already

Nicknite...you are a moron. Read an entire thread. I didn't bring Christ into the argument, I was commenting on someone else bringing Christ into the argument. I do applaud your "Christ-like" powers in that you can determine my religious beliefs (whether I am Christian or not) by reading my comments on a blog about a murderer. Kudos to you...moron.

Here we go again...leave the blog for a while and out of the woodworks come those who believe love can save Troy Kell. As stated many time before, his is a tragic story...but this monster is beyond rehabilitation. Check the facts. He has repeatedly refused ALL attempts to improve his situation. He is not getting mercilessly beat on and defending humself. This guy is a predator. Though I disagree with Grey on Sandy's situation, at least she is taking advantage of the programs available to her in an effort to gain her freedom. Kell is a killer. Some of you act as though he knocked over a liquor store. He took a life and has shown absolutely zero remorse. Until there is even a shed of remorse how can you make the follish arguments regarding rehabilitation? Show me a factual account where this guy has tried to do something positive while incarcerated to improve his parole possibilities. C'mon people, wake up.

REAL:

I believe you like to make comments to instigate arguments with people but I just don't care to argue with you. Next time you post for someone to read a whole thread I reccomend you try the same, if you had you would have seen where I stated to disreguard my posting. The reason I came to the conclusion you are not a christian is b/c of your words on this site and the attitude you have displayed, you can find this in the bible (you will know them by their fruits), it has nothing to do with being psychic. And since you are not a christian then I have no comments on what you should or should not say about "Christ" which is why I stated you should disreguard what I had said. I hope this makes sense to you.

Real,

What is it that you disagree with about Sandy?

I was just looking a data on a couple of women who committted murder and received the same sentence as Sandy.

One recently went before the Nevada's Board of Pardons (like Sandy did) and somehow came out being treated more leniently - and ended up being paroled in 4 years less time than Sandy has already served.

I see no social or political honor, and certainly no integrity, in comming down harder on children than on adults?

sandyshaw.org
http://sandyshaw.org

to nicknite..."judge not lest ye be judged"....I am a Christian...and if you are....then forgive me....thankfully I have God to judge me and not you because you are goofy....your posts are disjointed...'And since you are not a Christian then I have no comments on what you should or should not say about "Christ"' again, who are you to say who is Christian or not by reading a web blog? Also, in the future...Christ is a man or Savior depending on who you are (unlike you I do not have the powers to identify someone's non-stated religious beliefs via blog interpretation)so need to put his name in quotes....sorry, we Christians can be touchy

Grey-
I went to the link you provided. You and I have gone back and forth on this somewhat before. This is really difficult because there is just so much unknown....so much that only those three kids and the victim really know. I do agree with you that justice has not been served by the types of individuals that have been released while Sandy has been denied, but you must admit we can't use that as an overall measuring stick....meaning NOBODY should get off easy (releasing Sandy under that premise does not fix the system). As I stated before in a post (and Sandy says as much on her website), my question is can she adapt to life outside? This was a brutal crime with that "did she brag about it" cloud hanging over it. The website does have some excellent info on it and you have given some good arguments to think over. Good post.

Real, I don't have hard feelings for you to feel the need to forgive you, thank you for offering though. You are smart so I think if you tried approaching people differently you would still be able to debate and challenge others to think which seems like something you enjoy. From experience though, people don't receive all you say especially when there is name calling involved and for some reason you think this is acceptable. The only reason I even said anything in the first place is that I misunderstood you and then told you to disreguard what I had said. I am not trying to judge you, that is God's job alone, but when I read the bible, scripture states "you will know them by their fruits" so I try my best, as a christian, to speak to people the way christ would. B/c saying I am a christian but not supporting that with all that I do is not being christ like. And my only point to start with is I do not expect this from someone who is not a christian, why would someone who is not a christian care how they portray Christ or how they talk to people? If you read your posts maybe you can see why I came to the conclusion I did, I did not just assume, I read your words. Anyway, I was not trying to be mean but as much as you challenge others to think I just challenge you do to the same when you tell someone you are a christian they should be able to tell in your actions and your words.

Real,

Glad to hear you looked through sandyshaw.org

As you noted it is pretty extensive, and offers a lot of god info to consider.

I still think, however, that it is one thing to question whether the various sentences given people convicted of murder are indicative of someone getting off easy....

and quite another to question whether someone is being unequally punished within the group by the comparrison of their sentences (and the crime).

To me, that comparrison is the only measuring stick we have to show what is fair within the context of what punishment is handed out.... because punsihment is not supposed to be the sole response to crime. Rehabilitation is supposed to also follow.

As far as whether Sandy can adapt to life outside is yet another question. But the fact is that she deserves a chance given her general record of performance, her incarceration at so young an age, and the overall circumstance that surrounds this tragedy.

I feel somewhat bad about your disagreement nicknite because it was me who brought Jesus up - if only to point out that a conviction in the lawful court does not mean that the punishment given is punishment deserved.

Grey,

No need to feel bad, I should have taken the time to read ahead to avoid the misunderstanding all together, huh?

I think most of you posters are blind to the biggest underlying message of all,troy did what he had to do against blackmon. He even sais in the doc that it was settled that when they had there chances which ever one had the chance first to eleminate the other would use it.to sum it up the way troy tricked blackmon was pretty remarkable and to be honest if i was in his situation and someone was also gunning for me, well i might have done the same thing.the thing about him shooting the child rapist in the face that was becuase his friend was in danger of a possible child rapist who knows maybe worse.now im not trying to justify what troy did,and im not against the death sentence i mean if thats what he gets then thats what he gets but i mean i just wanted to make those things clear.

just my 2 cents
knate

well I have read a lot comments posted on this forum and have to say, some of these comments are very hilarious. if you watched and I mean really watched this documentary this guy talked of racial separatetism, racial profile, I mean for christ sake the man said after his maylay " we got some white power in here now ". this man stabbed this inmate 67 times and during that time walks away and when mr. blackmon's blood drenched body moved because of shock troy ran over and mounted him again and finished him off. this from a bad childhood? this from not being respected in society? NO, its his nature. during his interview as he narrated the murder he describes how he forged lonnie blackmon's signature on some medical papers so he could be sent to the infirmory to be ambushed by him and his racist partner. this was premeditated, so that means he knew exactally what he was doing from begining to end. HE SHOULD BE PUT TO DEATH, or maybe he should put back in society to kill your love ones by stabbing them 67 TIMES.

I TOTALLY AGREE KNATE. THERE IS NO EXSCUSE FOR WHAT TROY DID BUT IF I WERE IN PRISON AND SOMEONE WAS COMING FOR ME YOU BETTER BET I WOULD GET TO THEM FIRST. ALSO I THINK SOMEONE ASKED IF HE WAS STILL ALIVE. YES HE IS HES IN UTAH PRISON IN DRAPER. I HAVE WROTE TO HIM A FEW TIMES. I NEVER WANTED TO TALK TO HIM ABOUT WHAT HE DID. BUT HE EXCEPTS IT AND KNOWS HE WAS IN THE WRONG HENSE ASKING FOR FIRING SQAUD. I NOTICED ALOT OF DIFFERENT OPPINIONS ON HERE AND. AND I HAVE TO RESPECT THAT! I ALSO NOTICED PEOPLE GETTING A LITTLE AGGRAVATED THIS IS ONLY FOR DISCUSSION! AND THE DESITION HAS ALREADY BEEN MADE TO WHAT HAPPENS AS FAR AS TROY GOES. HE WILL BE EXECUTED.

Im moveing to utah to be closer to troy,i have talked to him many times and beleave he had a hard childhood. I think he needs support and lots of love in his life right now it's something he has never had and i will give him that forever.I also hope to someday marry troy if somebody does not get to him before me.

Jenn,

Out of all the availble men in the world why would you choose Troy? I almost think you must be joking just to see how many comments you will receive from this site.

ALL I HAVE TO SAY TO THAT IS WOW..............LOL

Jenn-
You are sterile right....please tell us you are sterile.

Jenn,

Too late! We were just married last week. We get conjugal visits every other weekend in a little trailer on prison grounds. The ceremony was beautiful. They took off his chains & flew in Sandy Shaw to be my Maid of Honor.

We are hoping to have at least 4 children before they shoot him.

It doesn't matter what country you live in, your moral beliefs, or your day to day opinions of this thing called Troy Kell. 'It' extinguished lives. The first was because as ‘It’ quoted, "I kinda went over-board." The same thing holiday fanatics might say if they were into putting up XMAS decorations or a woman might say after buying a lot of cool stuff at Victoria's Secret. 'Kell-thing' thinks of murder in the same trivial sense.

For the proponents of the final reality, yes, he deserves to diet on a tube-fed cocktail (or if he prefers; a bullet) and will most certainly be deterred from killing again. For the opponents of capital punishment, it is true that the death penalty ends life and is more costly than serving out a life sentence.

But on the patio of actuality, there are two absolutes. One is, I’m extremely happy that this thing did not live on my street, or in my city, county or state. The second is that this non-human will eventually be executed and there won't be too many people losing sleep over it.

As for Mrs. Kell;
I wonder what the kids will look like....

Thanks for wondering! We're already prepared for the best! We've got the files to file down the teeth & a double steel electric baby cage! Thannks for thinking of us. We know he'll make for a beautiful baby in his cage swinging from the ceiling in the attic.

Before passing jaded judgement on Troy Kell - The vast majority of you guys should try spending sometime behind bars in general population.

His first crime was brutal but understood and justified. He was protecting a young girl from a sex offender/pedophile. - To me, pedophilia is a haneous crime and should be punished by death.

His second crime was more like Institutional Self-Defense ... Inside prison walls when incarcerated - rules of societal life don't apply. The only rule of thumb is kill or be killed - much like war.

Everyone feels sorry for Mr. Blackmon - however he was a criminal himself - not some outstanding private citizen. He was in a Max Security prison for a reason.

Bush keeps our U.S. Armed Forces in Iraq for the future profits of his Haliburton Co. - Everyday our nation's young men and women are being killed by suicide bombers - and for what? For Bush?

We have the largest & most highly trained army in the world - but we can't find one Osama Bin Laden?

C'mon people wake up.

i just seen the Doc. on HBO...i'm glad to see that i'm not the only one who feels remorse...much respect and admiration for you troy...git-R-done

26 out of those 67 shank wounds were to the face and eyes.

MRS KELL, YOU ARE A FRAUD, UTAH LAW DO'S NOT ALLOW CONJUGAL VISITS! MARRIAGE ON DEATHROW IS PROHIBITED, AND I STILL CAN'T BELIEVE ALL YOU LADIES THAT WANT KELL!

I watched the documentary two days ago. That video is something I will never forget and I hope no one else gets to watch it. FUCK YOU SICK PIGS that say his was an act of self defense. STABBING A MAN 67 TIMES IS NOT SELF DEFENSE!!!!!! Maybe if that man believed in a God, he wouldn't be such an evil prick. He shouldn't get shot, he should get stabbed 67 times and then burned alive.
He's not the only one to blame in Larry Blackmon's death. It's true, he was no angel- even his BROTHER says in his interview that he wasn't innocent; he NEVER deserved to die the way he did. I can't believe that the prison guards waited until Troy was done with him before anybody did ANYTHING to help this man. Everyone remember that Larry Blackmon was still alive after Troy finished with him. THE GUARDS JUST SAT THERE AS THIS MAN WAS STABBED 67 TIMES. Don't guards have guns? They had no problem shooting troy when he got into that fight in the beginning of his sentence, so why would they sit back and watch him kill another human being? FUCK THE PRISON SYSTEM AND FUCK ALL YOU TROY SUPPORTERS. don't worry, YOU AND TROY WILL BURN IN HELL TOGETHER!

can i change my plea????????????????
i am sooooooo sorry if i offended anyone. i guess i was, like many..., taken aback by his "wit" and "charm" I DO NOT SUPPORT HIM like i once did....when i watched his video...i dont know what it was.......but i felt sorry for him....now that i got myself together and read what you all had to say... I DO NOT....and i wish i could DELETE my previous comment. i think troy is a lifeless murderer who will get EXACTLY WHAT HE DESERVES...please forgive me...all of the blackmon family deserve justice...i will pray for all...please forgive me...real name lisa...i am soooooooooooooooooo sorry.... not a troy supporter XseriousX

please respond soon

xseriousx.....decaf has all the original taste and half the caffeine

he does anyone know where i could get in touch with troy (adress or something) id really like to get in correspondanse with him. And hey for the people who saw :"Gladiator Days" what did you think of the music on there? The band playing the song at the end is RAHOWA (RAcial HOly WAr), until there frontman left the movement they were like the church band for the group Troy was/is with the WCOTC.

Jenn,
Where do you live now? How is Troy? Do you have any updates?

Creator8814,
Thanks for the information!! I was wondering who that was. And I would love to hear more of their music. I am going to look them up. Thanks again.

Creator8814,
Thanks for the information!! I was wondering who that was. And I would love to hear more of their music. I am going to look them up. Thanks again.

Hey Cass,
Since you work in the prison there maybe you can answer this- I saw a picture of Troy Kell online after the video was taken. He lost a lot of weight and almost looks like a totally different person. Do you know what the deal is with that?

Thanks,
Maria

Cass,
You are truly a world class moron. If you couldn't tell by reading my posts and actually processing the information, you would have seen CLEARLY that I was joking. Jesus Christ! Only a fucking idiot couldn't see that.
I'm amazed you know how to use your computer to make your retarded remarks.

Mrs. Kell, if it's all a joke then why are you referring to yourself as Mrs. Kell?

Rebekah,
LEARN HOW TO SPELL YOUR OWN NAME MORON. I referred to myself as Mrs. Kell as part of the fucking joke. Are you asshole bitches jealous? Why the fuck do you cunts lash out when people laugh about Troy?

Wow, "Mrs. Kell", I don't understand your hostility. I was not trying to be nasty, as you may have taken it. I was just wondering why you are pretending to be Troy's wife, but still making fun of him?? Just didn't understand what your message was about. What would we have to be jealous of? And as far as the spelling of my name, it's taken out of the bible, so take up that grievance with God. I wish you the best.

Wow! You still don't get it. Unbelievable.

"Mrs. Kell"

Your joke was funny the first couple of times but obviously no one else gets it so it just seems strange for you to get so mad about something that is not even real. Maybe you should come up with something else.

"Mrs. Kill"

Get some help, psycho. The language you used shows what a true degenerate you really are. You refer to yourself as Mrs. Kell, probably because it's only a matter of time before you have matching cells. Keep your uncomprehensible thoughts to yourself. Using nothing but cuss words shows you really don't have a grasp of the English language, resorting to the lowest form of communication is really quite pathetic. Get a life you loser.

if somebody know how to write a letter to troy or where to or if is possible please let me know please

nicknite & In the Know -
Whatever. I've had 20 emails already from people saying they thought my posts were funny. You two clearly have no sense of humor. I'm out. One last thing though. Mrs. Kill? If I was serious, I wouldn't say I was going to put my child in a cage & file down his teeth & "incomprehensible"? THAT has got to be the funniest thing next to my posts. A whole lot of intelligent people understood my joke. If it's incomprehensible to you, well, you have the answer on what we think of your intelligence.

hello

Does anyone know how to get in touch with troy kell?I just saw the doc on hbo i would love to talk to troy kell.

janet,
Just go to the Utah Department of Corrections website & ask them & they will email you the address. I don't suggest mailing him as he is cold blooded murderer but if you feel you have to, go ahead. From what I've read you probably won't get a response anyway.

ok, so what you're saying is that you wrote him a letter, he didn't respond. So now you call him a cold blooded killer. And act like you didn't care in the first place. When in reality you probably fell for him at first just like a million other girls. He is very hot. Although he looks much different now.

so has anyone ever recieved a letter back from troy and is he still alive?

The HBO special about Troy Kell was probably the most truthful look into life in a SuperMax Prison. You live like a caged animal where SURVIVAL is the only Law. Its either you or me, and it has nothing to do with race.

HAS TROY KELL BEEN EXECUTED OR IS IT SCHEDULED???????

Robert H & Jen 20

Yes, Troy Kell is still alive. He is still going thru the appeals process. No date has been set. There is a lot of
information about him on the internet, you just have to keep looking, if your interested.

CASS, Where are you? Haven't heard from you. I look forward to your comments on this site.

Thanks Maria!

Mrs. Kell- Bravo...you are hilarious.

all you other psychos who want to meet Troy Kell or correspond with him-- if he doesn't answer I hear Lyle Menedez is still single. Oh, and OJ is playing golf somewhere in florida--so he may be easier to reach as he is not stuck in a cell filing down "shanks".

It amazes me that people can see that video and have any doubt that the guy is a psychopath. Yes, he is good looking, but so was Ted Bundy.

You people who want to meet these men deserve whatever you get...and it probably won't be pretty. Tonight when you go to sleep and dream about Troy, if you have trouble sleeping, instead of counting sheep, count 67 shanks.

Morons.

I READ THIS ALOT, IT FOREVER AMAZES ME, TROY IS ALIVE AND WELL AND ON HIS SECOND APPEAL, ONE OF HIS FELLOW DEATHROW INMATES HAD HIS SENTENCE OVERTURNED, ALTHOUGH HE AXE MURDERED SOMEONE TO DEATH. UTAH DOESN'T LIKE TO GIVE THE ACTUAL SENTENCE WHEN FIRING SQUAD IS CHOSEN, IT IS BAD PRESS. TROY GETS 2 MORE APPEALS, HE WILL BE HERE A GOOD LONG TIME. AS FOR LETS GIVE TROY SOME HELP? COME GUYS, THE PRISON I WORK IN IS A BIG REHAB FACILITY. WE HAVE A FULL MEDICAL AND PSYCH DEPT, WE HAVE A WHOLE SECTION GEARED TO RE-HAB, LIVE IN DAILY COUNSELORS. WE HAVE BUSSINESS TRADES, HIGH SCHOOL, AND COLLEGE, ALL ON THE STATE! TROY DECLINED THE USE OF ANY OF THIS. FOR THIS REASON HE WAS LEVELED TO A 2, YOU HAVE TO BE PRETTY VIOLENT, OR REFUSE TO CO-OPERATE TO BE A LEVEL 2, AS YOU WILL NOTE, TROY FALLS IN BOTH CATAGORIES. HE WAS PLACED IN WHAT WE CALL LEVEL 2 LAND, WITH ALL THE OTHER UN-COPERATIVE BOYS, THAT IS WHERE HE COMMITTED HIS MURDER, KNOCK OF THE SYMPATHY, TROY DIDN'T AND DOESN'T WANT HELP, HE WANTED TO MANIPULATE YOU WITH SADNESS, AND LOOK? HE HAS DONE A GOOD JOB!

HI, YOU CANNOT BE SERIOUS,
NOW YOU ARE FUNNY, MRS KELL, SEROIUS HAS A SENSE OF HUMOR, DID YOU NOTICE?

MARIA,
TROY HAS BEEN MOVED FROM THE PRISON I WORK IN, HE IS IN DRAPER ON DEATHROW, RIGHT AFTER HE WAS MOVED HE OVERDOSED ON HEROIN,
I DON'T REALLY KNOW WHY HE LOST WEIGHT OVER THE LONG HAUL, BECAUSE IN UTAH, DEATHROW INMATES ACTUALLY GET MORE FOOD, THEY CAN HAVE FREE CANDY AND STUFF OFF COMMISSARY, "BECAUSE THEY ARE GONNA DIE" HE MUST HAVE WANTED TO, HE WORKS OUT ALOT, THEY ARE ALLOWED THIS ALSO. "HE HAS TO STAY BEAUTIFUL FOR HIS FEMALE FOLLOWING, AND AS YOU CAN SEE HERE, HE MOST CERTAINLY HAS ONE.

I ALSO JUST WATCHED THE PROGRAM ON HBO ABOUT TROY KELL AND THE BRUTAL MURDER CAUGHT ON TAPE. IT MADE ME SICK TO MY STOMACH. HOW COULD THE GUARDS JUST STAND THERE? THERE WERE ONLY 2 INMATES LOSSE BUT A ROOM FULL OF GUARDS AND NO ONE WENT TO HELP THIS MAN. WHAT A WASTE OF LIFE.

READ MY EARLIER COMMENTS, OFFICERS WERE NOT JUST STANDING THERE, THEY HELPED CIVILIAN PEOPLE OUT OF THE SECTION, 5 WERE SUITING UP IN RIOT GEAR (YOU GO IN WITH BRAVADO, HE HAS THE KNIFE) AND ONE WAS VIDEOTAPING IT, THAT IS HOW THEY CHARGED THEM. THESE OFFICERS BEHAVED PERFECT. TROY BROUGHT THIS UPON THE SECTION, THE SECTION WAS HOOTING AND HOLLERING AND CHEERING HIM ON, THESE GUYS ARE EVIL, QUIT PUTTING THE BLAME ANYWHERE ELSE

Test

Sorry about that I had to test it first, before I wasted my time. I am watching the show on HBO now. When I first saw the documentary I cried like I have never cried before. I sent a letter to the Gov. of Utah asking why Troy was still alive. Since then I have become a bit more intelligent, mature and schooled in Law Enforcement (in general). I couldn't conceive how another HUMAN BEING could do this to another HUMAN BEING? Like I said, I've been schooled. And, unfortunately, it happens every day. Like the previous responses, the Criminal Justice System IS failing. No question. BUT, in my opinion, EVERYONE has a choice. And I understand the repercussion's of a horrible family life. That is absolutely NO excuse. This has absolutely nothing to do with color. It has to do with the fact that one human being did this to another human being. IN COLD BLOOD. If Lonnie was your brother - how you nay sayers would change your story in a second, if not less. Troy Kell made a choice. In fact, he is an intelligent and of legal age male. He made informed dicisions (more than one) and now he has to deal with the consequences. If the people of the United States had a clue about what really goes on in government, the jails, the police agencies and attorney's offices, there would be mass panic. Anyway, everything is so gray, the rules are definitely not the same for eveyone. There is no black and white lines of Justice anymore. I am still a firm believer in choices. The mentally ill are not included. Everyone has a choice. EVERYONE! Troy is no different than the millions of prisoner's incarcerated right now. Or the billions of people that walk the streets of the United States every day. We ALL have a choice.
Also, I am a firm believer in the Death Penalty. however it's done. I say stop holding people on Death Row and start executing them, and let's get serious about penalties for breaking the law. Or, let's shut the fuck up and watch the Anarchy evolve.
One more thought regarding prisoner's: They don't have to work everyday. They don't pay taxes. They get three squares a day. Cable tv. Jobs. They earn money. They socialize ALL THE TIME. Why wouldn't they want to go back? They don't have to worry about insurance (convicts get the BEST medical treatment in the U.S.), free rehab for any drug/alcohol addiction. They get FREE psyche meds. They don't have to worry about car insurance either. They get visit's with family. They even get visit's to have sex. They get mail, email, internet, phone call's..... I guess I could go on forever.
I needed to vent. Thanks for giving me a place to let me!!!!

This is info I found at this website. Don't know how accurate it is. Just info for everyone.

http://www.prodeathpenalty.com/Pending/03/jun03.htm

Date of scheduled execution State Victim name Inmate name Status
June 28, 2003 Utah
Victim: Lonnie Blackmon and Unnamed victim
Troy Kell stayed
Troy Michael Kell, an inmate at the Central Utah Correctional Facility in Gunnison, Utah, was charged with aggravated murder. Kell stabbed fellow inmate Lonnie Blackmon to death on July 6, 1994. Prior to the attack, Kell, a white supremacist, had been involved in race-related altercations with several African-American inmates, including Blackmon. On the day before the killing, Kell and two of his accomplices, Eric Daniels and Paul Payne, submitted medical request forms to visit the prison's medical facility. In addition, Daniels forged a medical request form in Blackmon's name so that Blackmon would be transported to the medical facility at the same time Kell and his accomplices were being transported. Moments before the attack occurred, Kell and Blackmon were moved from the upper tier of the building at the CUCF where they were housed to the lower tier where they awaited transfer to the prison's medical facility. Both Kell and Blackmon were placed in double locked handcuffs fastened to a belt around the waist. Their feet were not placed in shackles so that they could safely descend the stairs from the top tier of the cell block. By this time, Daniels had also been moved to the lower tier to go to the medical facility. Payne's request to go to the medical facility had been denied because he was in punitive isolation on the top tier of the cell block. Nevertheless, at his insistence, Payne was permitted to shower on the lower tier of the cell block rather than in the showers located on the second tier of the cell block, where his cell was located. While descending to the lower tier, Kell removed his handcuffs with a partial handcuff key that had been altered with a homemade handle made from melted plastic utensils. Kell also produced a shank. Blackmon was standing with his back to Kell talking to other inmates, when Kell began to stab him repeatedly in the neck, eyes, face, back and chest. Kell was free to use his unrestrained hands and arms during the attack, but Blackmon could only kick at his attackers to defend himself because he was still in handcuffs that were attached to his waist. Blackmon's efforts were futile in any event because Payne choked and punched him and Daniels held onto his legs during the attack. For over two and a half minutes, Kell slashed Blackmon with his shank, inflicting sixty-seven stab wounds, only two of which were described by the forensic examiner as being capable of inflicting death in the short term. Despite Blackmon's pleas to stop, Kell continued the assault and, in fact, after walking away, returned twice to inflict more wounds, until Blackmon lay motionless on the floor of the cell block. Blackmon bled to death and Kell was charged with aggravated murder. State v. Daniels, 2002 UT 2. Following two pretrial hearings, the trial court determined to hold Kell's trial in a regular courtroom located inside the CUCF. This decision was based on security risks, including Kell's criminal background, prison disciplinary record, and overall prison history. In addition, several logistical problems regarding security existed in trying Kell in either of the two courtrooms available outside the prison. Because most of the numerous witnesses in the case were either prison guards or high security inmates, the security risks and costs associated with transporting all of them to a courtroom located outside of the county would have been extremely high; thus, the trial court decided to hold the trial in the courtroom located within the confines of the prison. At trial, Kell testified that he killed Blackmon because Blackmon had overtly threatened him. According to Kell, Blackmon wanted to make an example of him to the other inmates to demonstrate Blackmon's power in the prison. Kell stated he believed Blackmon was making a threat when he overheard Blackmon say to another inmate on the day of the killing, "Yeah man . . . it's on. You know it," even though Blackmon made no threatening gestures toward Kell. Kell claimed that due to conditions in the prison and circumstances surrounding Blackmon's threats, he was suffering from "extreme emotional disturbance" at the time of the homicide. One eyewitness testified, however, that during the attack Kell's demeanor was "very business like, as cold as cold gets. It was like he was doing a job." Kell was captured on the prison security camera in the act of the murder. Kell was already serving a life sentence without the possibility of parole for a murder in Nevada. UPDATE: Kell reinstated his appeals and the execution was stayed.

I have seen this story several times on HBO, I cannot believe what i am reading. First of all Troy Kell killed a man in Nevada which i believe the man wasnt a saint, but was shot six times in the face. Which Troy Kell and accomplices planned out. Then the prison incident with Ronnie Blackmon was also planned if you actually watched the documentary. And he screamed out white power. So Ronnie being a black man didnt make this case bigger then it should of been. It was how vicious Troy Kell murdered him. Stabbing him in the head over and over. Then there was the incident where he beat up an arab man just after the 911 attacks . This guy is screwed up in the head and deserves what he gets. Also some people posted that he showed remorse to the Blackmon family. He also told the guards that he was going to win an academy award. I think our justice system is doing the right thing here. Whatever happened to Troy saying he wont appeal his death sentence. Hes appealing it. I think the man of steel is scared. Scared to find out what waits for him in death. Goodluck Troy.

Hey, If you want to write Troy give it a shoot. I use to write Troyand talk on the phone with him alot. I even have pictures from his child hood he sent me along with others. But he is not the man if your looing for love. I did realize I was one of many women he was lovey dovey with. I realized that are are alot of men that are lonely out there and I must say much better looking than Troy. I now have a wonderful husband that will be home soon. Thank godn i found out what Troy was really like befor I moved out there like he wanted.Write for support not for love.
22204U1511 Utah state prison Draper Utah 84020

I hope you guys are NOT misunderstanding what I am saying. I wrote a letter to the Gov. asking why Troy Kell was still alive? I have absolutely no pity for Troy Kell. If it were up to me he would have been dead a long time ago. I wonder if he read's this post and loves that he has pissed off so many of us? Anyway, I am a firm believer in the Death Sentence (whichever method is used). As I said before, EVERYONE has a choice. He made very bad choices, and he should pay for them, not us. And we are paying for him. WE pay for him to sit around all day, watch tv, workout, go the the library, get a college education and so forth. The Justice System is all about who you know not what you know. Period. And again, unfortunately, this shit happens every day. I'm sure a few times a day. We just don't hear about it.
Maria: I'm sorry if you thought for one second that I wanted to contact Troy Kell. I wouldn't spit on him if his mouth was on fire.
Chris: Don't even say goodluck to Troy Kell. He is a monster. And would no doubt go back to a life of crime if given the chance. That's why I say I am a firm believer in the Death Sentence. I just wish they would get rid of all these filthy criminals and stop having so much compassion for them. THEY ALL made a choice, to brake a law. No matter how small - they need to learn that there are DEFINITE consequences for every action that they take. And damnit, if we don't start taking a hold of all this violence where are we going to end up? I am afraid to think of it.
God, I sound like some kind of crazy activist - but I'm not. I'm a 36 yr old, single, female who just needed to give an opinion.

Well, thanks for responding and I will be watching this post, as it is important to me.

Again, thanks for giving me a place to vent.
Debbie

I dont understand how woman could realy consider a love relationship with troy? honestly i was moved by troy in the doc. on HBO but ill be the first to addmit that it goes away,then u just feel like how could someone be good looking and smart and do the things he did, while there are also good people in the world (some related to some of us) that are sick and never had the chance at a healthy life like he did. i do hope troy finds peace if thats possible and i can't judge him because i don't know what i would do in his shoes in prison

Jen20: Let's say you killed someone. Then you go to jail. Then you kill another person JUST BECAUSE YOU THOUGHT HE might BE A THREAT. Well, then you would deserve to die. Troy Kell is NOT stupid. He's way smarter than a lot of people that walk the streets every day in the United States. HE MADE CHOICES. And he knew that he would be caught. What sane reason could you possibly give for shanking a man over 67 times when you are already incarrcerated? To me, Troy Kell is a very sick man. Yes, he had some hard times growing up BUT WHO THE FUCK DIDN'T??? Again, he made choices. No one had a gun to his head telling him to kill anyone. And he has killed two people, in cold blood. FOR NOTHING!!!!! It's not like either one of them raped his grandma. (God forbid). Just saying. And women who fall in love with sick people like Troy Kell are lonely, no, very lonely women with extremely low self esteem.
I hope Troy Kell dies in the same manner that Jeffrey Dahmer did. With a big stiff one up his ass!!!!

i was just able to read an article online and it got me very interested. Then i went on to catch the documentry on TV. I Belive that Troy Kell does not deserve the death penalty. First of all lets go to the begining where Troy was asked by a close friend to beat up this MAN a grown MAN that wanted her at the age of 15 to pose naked or whatever he asked. THat right there deserves the death penatly more than Troy Kell. Then it just so happened that he brings a gun and shoots him. My opinion is that if a grown ass man likes to see 15 year olds naked and harasses her bad they deserive to die. And now the jail murder of blackmon they both were ganna try to kill eachother any chance eaither of them got it just so happed that kell acted first. And it wasnt like blackmon ran, he was goin after kell. what would happened if blackmon and a friend where able to get kell first?? Would Blackmon get the same punisment highly doubt that.

Fuck any one who doesn't like Troy Kell. The man is an icon and should be pres of the U.S. This country needs to put those damn liberal bed wetters and nigger lovers in their place (which is in a grave with 60+ stab wounds). I demand that a movie is made about him. You hear me Spielberg, i want it to have 5 fucking acadamey awards, including best supporting actor. The only good nigger is a dead nigger, White Power!

Aren't racists the greatest? Whenever a forum begins to get dull, they swoop in and fling feces on the walls to brighten things up!

Thanks, asshole!

Jesus this is fun!!

First, SebaStiAn: It's not about some stupid, white trash bitch asking Troy Kell to "take care of" a "problem" she was having. I agree with you totally. ANYONE who is into child porn should die. The fact is, that Troy Kell MADE A DECISION to bring a gun and shoot the guy dead. If you watched the show, I hope you remember the part where Troy Kell states that "Blackmon wanted to make an example of him to the other inmates to demonstrate Blackmon's power in the prison. Kell stated he BELIEVED Blackmon was making a threat when he overheard Blackmon say to another inmate on the day of the killing, "Yeah man . . . it's on. You know it," even though Blackmon made NO threatening gestures toward Kell. Kell claimed that due to conditions in the prison and circumstances surrounding Blackmon's threats, he was suffering from "extreme emotional disturbance" at the time of the homicide."
Troy Kell is NOT just another victim of the penal system gone wrong, he is a hard hearted criminal and if he was put on the street's again he would no doubt - hmmmm - go after your sister, or mother. What would you say then?

And RGiuliani, wouldn't you LOVE Troy Kell if he killed your brother because some white trash crack whore said bad things about him? Was it ever proven that Cotton Kelly WAS into child porn? Or that he did in fact ask that crazy bitch to pose nude for him? Any proof on that?

My concern is this: The society we live in today is digressing to a state that has everyone living in fear. And everyone should be living in fear. No more are the "safe neighboorhood's" where you can leave your doors un-locked. And, as far as the criminal justice system goes, most cities don't have the resources to control poverty, lack of schooling (that gives a fuck), and police to sustain any repurcussions for crimes committed by minors, so they learn that that is a "normal" part of life. Going to juvi. And they learn to accept it. Most juvinelle detention centers will not accept anyone who does not commit a major felony. IE kill someone. If a 16 yr old steals a car, he is turned over to his mother (or whomever has parental rights over him or her).

I'm having another Heineken. And I welcome all comments!! This is getting interesting!!!

Again, let me state, that I believe that ALL person's on Death Row should be executed immediately. Ask questions later. It would save us millions of dollars every year. And maybe, keep the social security program around a little longer ha/ha. Then for the families of people whom were wrongly accused - we'd have plenty of money to pay them off. Troy Kell is one of those people that should die. He CANNOT go back into society and function as a normal person. Hold a job, pay bills etc. He is a career criminal. And he will not stop. He cannot be rehabillitated. It's over for him. Just stop it now and let him move on to the next phase in life (whatever that may be).

RGiuliani: What do you think of white trash? And white people that commit the same crimes as black people? Do you think that ALL white people are excempt just because they are white?

Drizz: What's your opinion?

What happened to everyone - this is such a hot topic?

Kill the Niggers!!!!

Debbie, my opinion is that people should be judged primarily upon their actions. Killing outside the realm of self-defense is murder and subject to justice.

I see the anonymity of the Internet has enabled "George" to express his noxious views well.

George is probably 12 and has found a site that will let him use profanity. And he probably lives in a trailer park (the "bad" kind) and his mom, well, we all know that story. Anyhow....

Drizz: I totally agree with you. I feel that the U.S. needs to stand up to criminals of all kinds and demand that we are not going to take this type of behavior anymore. If the penalties were stiffer and there were actually consequences, then maybe there would not be so many of them. Working in Law Enforcement, as a dispatcher, you see and hear about the absolute worst case scenarios. I see people, everyday get away with unbelievable shit. And Troy Kell got caught. Twice. Period. And he should pay with his own life. He is worth nothing and he will never be worth anything. He has a damaged brain. And all the meds and psyche treatment in the world won't fix a person like him.

That's all I got for now.......

I guess some of you have never been in a jail or a prison in this country, if you had, you would know that the only ones to blame for the Death of L. Blackmon Is the system, they keep Racism, Violence and Gang activity Going strong. They even get off on it and set up fights and even Hits. You saw how long it took them to respond to the stabbing. Anyway, People wonder why are jails are so violent and there is no simple answer, but it will have to start with some real prison reform

Just curious if anybody posts on here anymore?

I'm still posting here. Waiting for something.....

Beau: If you have served time in jail. It's because you deserved it. If you MAKE THE CHOICE to commit a crime, then you deserve to pay the penality. I agree with you that the whole penal system is (sorry) fucked up. Instead of reforming the prison system, let's start with people that are in joepardy of choosing a life of crime. What about that? Set the people aside that have proven, time and time again, (Troy Kell), that they are repeat offenders. Start at the level of basic morals. Our country has no morals anymore. People want to fall down in WalMart (where a sign says "Caution Wet Floor" then sue WalMart for "making" me slip for $10 million dollars. I say go after all small time "criminals" and let's set the record straight with them, then possibly you will have the trickle down effect.

If people see that there are SERIOUS repurcussions for they're actions they will be less inclined to commit any crime. Savage as it sounds. We absolutely have to do something in this country.

Posted 1/25/2006 @ 12:08am

Watch it Beau, there's a psycho jailer in here by the name of "Cassie" that will argue every step of the way with you. A bit of anger management would do..... Anyway, Troy just mailed me & he's doing fine. He figures 3-5 years for his appeal so he'll at least get to live that much longer. Thank you for understanding that he wasn't given a choice in the Blackmon situation!

George -
I copied & pasted this forum to Troy & he would rather you didn't say shit like that. Support is one thing, but you're not helping him by pissing people off.

Cass - QUIT TELLING AT PEOPLE! Have you never been in a forum before?! CAP LOCK IS YELLING STUPID!
Christ, the people we have to deal with!

I goofed. The crazy is "Cass" & she YELLS too!

The people we have to deal with? You mean people like yourself?

Anyway, in my opinion I think Troy made a stupid decision as a young man, and yes he should be locked up. As for the Mr. Blackmon incident, I believe Troy did what he had to do to stay alive. Our prison system is not the best in the world, it doesn't work for the majority. Most of the offenders that go through our penal system and serve their time usually end up back in the system. That right there shows us it's not working. I don't believe the death sentence helps in any way. To kill one man because he killed another has no purpose other than revenge. Thou shalt not kill. It's ok for the government to kill. But let's say someone kills your child and you in turn kill the one that killed your child. You would be sent to prison. The system doesn't see it as an eye for an eye. But that's exactly what the system does when they put someone to death. Why is it ok for them to do it but not us? The system sees it as 'Hey, let's kill this guy so no one else will do what he did'. But it obviously doesnt work.

And I do feel bad for Troy. The way a child is raised has a huge impact on how the child will react as an adult. He was taught violence early on by his father. Some people have the ability to move beyond that and others don't.

And as for the women like Tiki here who want to write to Troy and start whatever kind of relationship they're seeking, you guys have to think, we are women, we are born with the need to nuture. I'll admit, I thought about it too, for a split second. Thats as far as it went for me. But in that split second I had some insight as to why someone would want to subject themselves to this man. Yeah he's charming, I don't thikn he's handsome, but I can see why alot of women would be attracted to him. And there's a certain novelty value to it. Troy is a legend? maybe, and that's only because of the documentary. But these women want to feel like they are the one Troy depends on. That he will be sitting in his cell waiting for her letter. And that when he goes to sleep at night he thinks of her. And yet she can never touch him. She's completely safe, her heart cannot be broken because he cheated. But these women fail to realize that all Troy has is time, and from this blog alone you can tell that he has quite a following. I'm sure there are plenty of letters flowing to him on a daily basis. The women want to feel they are special, and unfortunately they seem to think they need the attention of this man or others like him as stated above by the woman who married another inmate. Why did Troy kill? Why do these women love those who kill? Maybe we'll never know, but I don't thikn you guys should harp on these women. If this is what they need to make themselves feel good so be it. More power to them, you will not change their mind, they know what he did and obviously they don't care. Or maybe they think they can get through to him. Either way, they are just one of many, they're just making this mans time go by a little faster every day. And each letter he reads helps his mind escape where he is.

I believe that Troy is sorry for what he did, and I bet if he could change it he would. The man has had years to think about what he has done. And as for the video, you can totally tell that he is on an adrenaline rush. Once your adrenaline is pumping like that it takes over. You are so in the moment that that moment is the only thing you are thinking about. Thats why it was 67 times, he was unable to stop himself. And I don't believe for an instant that it was racially motivated. And no matter what Cass says, I thikn the guards could have done something, I mean c'mon, one man was handcuffed and the other had a shank, how many men would it have taken to stop it immediately? The damn doors have locks, they could have locked the civilians in and had Troy down in an instant. The point is, though it may have been Troy's fault, the guards could have stopped it.

Jenny - you sound like a really intelligent person! Thanks!! You make some very interesting points. And I totally agree with you, the penal system is corrupt as hell. And most people who go to jail will, at some point end up back in jail. I also agree that we should try "reforming" convicts as soon as they start to show a pattern of criminal behavior.
Where we disagree is the Troy Kell case. Unfortunately yes, Troy had a very less than desireable childhood. He has no boundaries. Maybe he couldn't stop. But, he knew that he would have to pay for his crime. It was pre-meditated. He made the choice. As far as an adrenaline rush, quite possible. But how do hundreds of people every day use discretion and control? And boundaries. Look at Law Enforcement, every day they are subjected to situations that make their adrenaline rush, and yes, sometimes they do lose their cool. But, most of the time they stay level headed.
The sad thing is that people casted their votes either way on this case. They fail to realize that Troy Kell is one of hundreds, maybe thousands who sit in jail as we speak that come from similar circumstances. Most people do not wake up one day and decide "hmmm, today I'm gonna turn into a criminal".
And I absolutely agree with you that Mr. Blakmon's death could have been prevented. If you can remind me, how long did it take for Officer's to respond? And what time of day or night was it?
One last point, I am for the death penalty. For those who cannot be changed. When Troy Kell murdered that first man, ok, yes, young, dumb whatever. But with Mr. Blackmon, that was cold blooded murder. Totally premeditated. Troy Kell cannot be "reformed". Would you want him living next door to you. If you had children? Or next to your Grandmother? I know I wouldn't. It's in their brains. They are, for lack of a better term, hardwired wrong. Maybe it is all because of his past. Maybe it's solely from being in jail for years. But I truly believe that given the chance Troy Kell would go back to a life of crime in a New York minute.
Ok, one last thing (this time I mean it): Women who chase after men that are locked up are exactly like you said: Safe. Or so they think.
Posted Sun. 1/29/06 1:09am

REAL;

I am a little late on here, but I caught your sense of humor and your way with words and it brings back some good ole memories of a few “PEEPS” I took sides with on an old blog, one who went by the name of "HATE" !!! IF THIS IS YOU? I just want to say it is good to see your way with words and your humor still exists after all this time. Just remember "TRIANGULAR FIRE" that should clue you in.
LMK...

Okay, I won't yell, It was not my intent to yell, I just use caps as that is how we document in this prison. I saw the Troy Kell video 2 days ago, in a training meeting, I saw the one that you do not see, the one with the sound track of Blackmon begging for his life. It is hidious, I am sure if you all had privy to this, it would horrify you. Kell just stabs and stabs as Blackmon screams, crys, begs and gurgles, NOW I YELL, IS THIS NOT A PROBLEM FOR YOU TIKI?, NO, I am not a jailer, I am not an officer, but, I do know, they behaved perfectly, they were not SLOW!, you all judge, you were not in the prison at this time.
This is a really good prison, it is not perfect, nobody is abused. Mistakes are made on occasion, trading for Kell was abig one, he was very violent in vegas in the prison, he was sent to us to REHAB!, A mistake on our part, I will quote things I have heard Kell say to my face! I will kill again before I leave prison. I will use violence if I need to! More stuff than this?
So, what do you do with a guy like this, he is locked 24/7 for other inmate and officer safety! I think in the end, if he doesn't buck up and fix the problem of his attitude, someone may kill him! Other inmates!, so ladies, dream of him, he is wonderful! Poor Kell. Blackmon did nothing to him, this was a
racial killing, pretend what you want! I was there!

CASS, have you ever heard of Wayne Perry, and are there worse criminals than Troy Kell? Just how violent was Kell in prison?

Cass-
Are you a guard at Utah State Prison? I have a friend (not close) that used to work there. I remember him saying he went to work scared everyday. He said it's a violent prison & the guards aren't safe. Is this true?

Cass-
Since Troy has nothing to lose, why wouldn't he say those things to you? He may not have said any of that if he had a chance to get out some day.

troy deserves to die yes but we can all be humans and feel 4 him can't we?whether die or live he's the one who will pay 4 what he has done.i can't say i'm in love with him but i can say he intriges me to no end and i will cry when they kill him.i keep remembering his last statement saying the only killing i will see is them killing me.that's deep.i'd love to write him because i dofeel he is an intellegent man.to see what makes him feel the way he does.the special did affect me.i felt for all who were involed but i see the pain in his eyes from his past and the love for his father.all the race shit is what he was standing for right or wrong it's what he's learned in prison.words fly in prison and you do have to watch your back.it's too bad it happened to a good looking man who can charm you.i will write him and i hope he writes back.

Debbie...it took over 5 minutes for the guards to step in. If they would have reacted in the proper manor Mr. Blackmon would still be alive.
And Cass, I think you are full of shit, I have read all of your posts and in the beginning you say nothing of being there when it happened. But then you get defensive and say you were there. You need to get your story straight.
And as for the guards suiting up in full riot gear, what was the need for that? It was only 2 men in a confined area and one was handcuffed. And Cass, please tell us how Troy had access to a handcuff key? And if Troy is locked up 23 hours a day or whatever how did he have access to the muslim man? And even further still...if he is locked up with no access to other prisoners how did he get the heroine he used to try to overdose with?
So not only does the prisoner have the ability to make his own weapon, he also has access to a handcuff key, drugs, and other inmates.
Debbie, I firmly believe that Troy should be locked up. But I don't think killing him would do anyone any good. Let the man brood over what he has done and the lives he has taken for the rest of his life. Keep the man caged like an animal until he stops breathing of natural causes. Death is an easy way out.
And Troy was in prison for only a year and a half when he killed Mr. Blackmon. I'm not defending him in any way, but our penal system is shitty. These young boys go to prison, they have no idea what it's like. They have to find their footing, prove themselves. Sometimes they have no other choice. Prison is an awful, awful place. I don't see how being thrown into a cage with a bunch of other animals solves anything. America needs to do a total overhaul of our prison system. Why are there gangs in prison? If you're in prison it should be just that. A PRISON. And not a feeding ground for violent criminals. America is too lenient.
It took 200 years to get the first million prisoners, and only 10 more years to reach 2 million.

Jenny, Thank you for your opinion! One correction is that Troy went to prison in 1986 & the Blackmon murder was 1994. I also don't think killing him does any good. It's our systems fault they created a monster. As far as Cass goes, I've never heard so much crap in my life. She's also very pissy when someone has a different opinion. As far as my need to nurture, I'm a guy & my cousin is in prison for 40 years for something that should have warrented maybe 5 years max so I'm a little burnt out on the system. I can see from my posts that I might have appeared to be a groupie from the past postings but I assure you I an a straight male as my wife would confirm.

Jenny: Five minutes is a very long time when you are fighting for your life. I absolutely agree with you that all the guards had to do is spray some pepper spray or taze Kell and Blackmon could have been saved. I wonder, if there is a certain protocol that must be followed before any use of force is implemented? If Blackmon's murder happened on the midnight shift for example, and the prison is running on a skelton crew, does Officer A (that is the first witness) need to get approval from Sgt. B, who then needs to get approval from Warden C (if he answers the phone)? The political chain of command is very strict with some agencies. Probably to a fault. But, I'm just curious if anyone knows?

I totally believe that prisoner's have access to anything they want. Drugs, sex, turn your cheek while I do this to so and so and the list goes on. How else could Kell have stolen a note to go to the sick ward when he wasn't really sick?

Where the Death Penalty is concerned, Jenny, we must be adults, respect eachothers opinion's, and agree to disagree. I appreciate and totally respect your opinion, but I disagree. As I've said before, I think Kell is broken. In his mind. I believe that he cannot be rehabilitated. I firmly believe that if he was let out of prison tomorrow within three months he would be back in jail. Maybe not for murder but for something.

And I also agree with you that the Penal System is shitty. Right now, it's worse than shitty, it's fucked. In a perfect world there would be all kinds of interventions for troubled youth's in America. But there's not. And we have young people turning to a life of crime because they, like you said, have no choice. Most people can't imagine what it's like to have no choice, but if you've seen it, you will never forget it. And there are millions of kids, every single day, who have no choice.

Tiki you said "It's our systems fault they created a monster". Why don't we hold parents responsible for abusing their children early in their lives when they turn out messed up? I think we should to some degree. But then again, that would take some serious man power to investigate millions of allegations, half of which would probably be false.

Can't wait for your responses!! Have a good night!!
Debbie S posted Feb. 8 @ 12:48am

Debbie, I stand corrected. This is from a previous post.

Troy was not a product of an uncaring society. In fact, he was a product of abuse from his father. I know, because I witnessed it as we grew up together. Troy was full of issues that couldn't be seen by professionals, because he hid his problems, as did I. If Troy were to say anything back then, his dad would've got wind of it and beat him severely.
Troy's father groomed him to become a killer. Yet I feel bad for saying so, because he still adores the man.
I am ashamed of myself for not helping Troy when I moved out on my own, because, unlike the so-called "professionals", I did see it coming.
Every fight, every arguement, got worse as we grew older. He hurt inside and even though his rage was growing more and more vicious, he also had the biggest heart of anyone I knew.
Although, I wasn't there when he killed his first person, I can tell you what his face looked like a split second before he pulled the trigger. Troy's look was always the same, even if the results got worse.
Troy simply went into a defensive mode that could not be shut down until the threat (real, or percieved) was gone. If Troy thought someone might be a threat, he would find that person and not wait for them to come to him.
I believe that is because his dad would be gone for extended times and beat Troy when he got back for things Troy did while his father was gone.
Troy will always be my friend, but I blame his dad for things that Troy never will.
Because of him, I will never get to do even the simplest of things, like invite Troy on a fishing trip.
Posted by: Sean W. on April 18, 2005 11:46 PM

tiki, you say it's because of his father's abuse i agree but don't you also think the white power also had their hand in it.if not why did he make the comment after the killing of blackmon.I do believe it was an attack made because of the rules in prison, get before gotten.And he had to of known the damage inflicted would end in death.I do think the guards acted too slow,whether for good film or they wanted troy to get the death penalty.They have been known to set up prisoners.I mean let's be real how the hell did troy get the handcuff key? Why were there no personnel in the room? these are questions I'd like to know.And for eric who laid on blackmon he also should die.although the comments made by eric may just be the nail in his coffin by the white race it's not fair.And I wouldn't of said sorry to him for fucking up his life that was his choice to do.TROY didn't force him to do shit,eric was trying to make himself like troy.I will always think troy is an handsome smart man who is lost in the system.not the monster eric said he is.Let's not forget he will die for what he did but how many murders in prison have happened since this and they haven't made news but a small article in the local paper.

tiki,yes abuse is bad but i was abused beat by my father and i'm not out killing people just because they piss me off or say something to someone i know.which is what troy did,in his words a fight that trickled over where he became involed.the abuse did'nt help but that wasn't why,if so why the comments on white power? My question is how did troy get the handcuff key,why were there no personnel there.I think the guards knew more than they say.I know they set up people and won't get involed in certain fights.Was it for the film aspect or we're they hoping troy would be the one dead instead?Or the opposite did they want blackmon dead.it was awful nice to be able to video tape it instead of helping break it up.things to make you say hmmmmmm,i wonder.

anyone still commenting on this thread?

Obviously, look at the dates. What's on your mind?

Ok, so I was wrong, I have no idea where I got the year and a half from. Maybe he was in Utah for a year and a half before this happened?
Anyways, Debbie, you say we must agree to disagree but you are arguing a mute point, I never said Troy should be let out. I firmly believe that he should stay where he is. I just don't believe killing him, or anyone else for that matter, solves anything. The death penalty does not work. Troy was sentenced in '94? for this, and here it is '06 and he's still kickin. There's no lesson to be learned from this. They get 3 hots and a cot for years, all on our tab. Again I think if they are sent to prison let it be just that. A prison. I believe if the prison system was much more strict there wouldn't be as many repeat offenders. Why should they be allowed to watch tv. or even play a game of chess? They are not in there to socialize, they are there because they did something wrong. Teach them a lesson and maybe they won't become a repeat offender.

I found this today..
Troy Kell

Prosecuted for killing the head of the Chips black-power prison gang.

This was the first I have heard that Blackmon was the leader of the black gang. Doesn't really change my mind in any way, but it does argue the point that Troy had to do what he did to stay alive.

As for holding parents responisble, I'm not sure I would agree with that. What about the kids that kill their parents? Are the parents responsible for their own deaths? I do agree however that parents play a big role in how a child turns out, but we don't have any control over how the child thinks, or how he would react, we can only teach what we think is right, that's not to say the the child will take it to heart. I lived a few houses down from a 12 year old that killed his parents because he didn't want to move. This child was not abused, he came from a loving home. He was 12 years old. Who do we blame here?
Posted 2/10/06 11:05am

i found these today on cnn.com....

Are the parents responsible?

[comment edited to fix a formatting problem - Drizz]

Thanks Jenny, I guess the bottom line is I'm just not for the Death Penalty. It doesn't serve as a deterrent and it costs more. I believe it was Troy's accomplice Eric that said you got more priviledges on Death Row than live w/o parole also.

Tiki: I said before that I fully believe that Kell was abused as a child. And we all know that can do horrible things to a mind. I never argue that. My point is that, as an intelligent man he made choices. Kell is no dummy. By no means. He knew exactly what he was doing with both murders. Both were pre-meditated. He had time to back out of both. But he chose not to. I do feel bad for him. I know that he has not had it easy. And I also understand that there are tons of murders that go on in prison, every day, without even a single mention on the local news. As I've said before, I'm in Law Enforcement, and I see things that get swept under the carpet. No media is notified at all. And for your statement "It doesn't serve as a deterrent and it costs more" (to execute people), it only costs a few hundred bucks (if that). It's way cheaper to execute (by any method) than it is to keep them alive for 25 years on Death Row.

Having said that, I feel that his parents should be held accountable for something??? The question is because I have no idea how or for what exactly. Jenny, the links you put up, there has to be warning signs before a horrible act like those are committed. I understand not everytime, but there has to be some kind of shift in personality or something. If the parents choose to live in denial and not recognize that the child's grades are slipping, or that he/she is suddenly staying home all the time and laying on his/her bed, then yes, something should be done. But it has to be on a family level. Put the child in a mental institution and give them all mandatory psyche visits for five years. I don't know but there has to be something. As far as Kell's father, is he still alive? What does he do? And do him and Kell still have contact?

Tiki said that Kell adored his father. That is part of the abuse cycle. It's totally normal for the abusee to look up to and want attention from the abuser. Enter Eric. I picture Eric being to Kell what Kell was to his father. It's all a vicous cycle.

Swangirl: You make a damn good point. Did the guards want to have Blackmon killed, did they want the camera time? Some questions will never be answered.

Jenny: As far as arguing a mute point, what's the point of keeping criminals like Kell alive? Do you believe that he could be released and live a "normal" non-criminal life? Like you said, they get three squares a day, gym, sunshine, books, college, work, sex, drugs and not to mention the best physical and mental care around. On our dime. This is really sick - sorry - execute them all. Right now. Then if we find out so and so was innocent pay the family a mil. I believe it would cost us taxpayers alot less in the long run.

Jenny: I totally agree with you. All of the benefits should be taken away. All criminals (whether first time offender or 20th time) should be sentenced to hard labor. Then maybe that would make some choose a different lifestyle.

Regarding the 12 yr old that killed his parents because he didn't want to move and the other case: Again, I say there had to be signs. Nine times out of 10 there are signs. I'm reaching here, but there has to be something. Anyone have any idea's?

Have a good night!! Posted Feb. 12 @ 1:14am

http://www.prodeathpenalty.com/Pending/03/jun03.htm

Hope it works. You may have to copy and paste. I did a couple of searches on Chips prison gangs and Chips black power and found nothing. So I did a search on Lonnie Blackmon and this was the first website that came up. You have to page down to the bottom, but if you look at it, who is the third guy they mention, Paul Payne? And how true is it?

Also, if you read it, it says that Kell made a make-shift handcuff key out of plastic utensils?

Posted Feb. 12 @ 01:56am

Debbie, do a search on the costs of prison & you'll find it cost much more to execute someone than to keep them locked up for life w/o parole which is what I think Troy should have.
The death penalty is not cheaper justice than life in prison. Many states have compared the costs, and found that keeping prisoners on death row is far more expensive than putting them away for life. In "The Case Against the Death Penalty," Hugo Adam Bedau writes:

"A 1982 study showed that were the death penalty to be reintroduced in New York, the cost of the capital trial alone would be more than double the cost of a life term in prison. (1) In Maryland, a comparison of capital trial costs with and without the death penalty for the years 1979-1984 concluded that a death penalty case costs "approximately 42 percent more than a case resulting in a non-death sentence." (2) In 1988 and 1989 the Kansas legislature voted against reinstating the death penalty after it was informed that reintroduction would involve a first-year cost of "more than $11 million." (3) Florida, with one of the nation's largest death rows, has estimated that the true cost of each execution is approximately $3.2 million, or approximately six times the cost of a life-imprisonment sentence." (4)

Why is capital punishment so much more expensive? To make sure that innocent people aren't executed, capital cases are given a lengthy appeals process. Many Americans are impatient with this perceived delay of justice, and call for it to be drastically shortened. But it is important to realize that even under the current system, a substantial number of innocent people get executed. The Stanford Law Review has published a famous study documenting 350 cases this century where a person sentenced to death was later proven clearly innocent. Seventy-five of those cases occurred recently, between 1970 and 1985. Although not all of them were executed, most spent decades in prison agonizing over their unjust fate. Without question, shortening the appeals process would increase the already high percentage of innocent people executed.

I shpuld have mentioned that I understand we all know Troy is guilty but since he is afforded the same appeals process as everyone else, the cost is enormous.

Tiki: I must apologize to you and everyone else. I was thinking, when I said it was "cheaper to put someone to death than to keep them alive" only about the cost of the drugs it takes to kill someone vs. the cost of them staying alive alone. I didn't include the court costs. GOOD POINT!!! Duh!! So, sorry. And yes, then I absolutely agree with you. It is cheaper to keep someone alive. Are you a lawyer? You sound very intellignet and schooled on details!

I will also agree that a huge number of inmates have been wrongly convicted, luckily, I believe their time spent in prison is reduced along with the number of false convictions with the introduction of DNA testing.

So what about the guy Paul Payne and the makeshift handcuff key out of plastic utensils? Does anyone know what that's about?

Have a good night! Posted 2/12/2006 @ 11:47pm

Debbie...that was the first i heard of the plastic key. All the reports I have read said handcuff key only, nothing about it being made. If you find anything else on it let us know.

Posted 2/13/06 @ 9:27am

This is all I can find out about Paul Payne.

"According to the lawsuit, Wackenhut prison officials knew that the two men, Paul Payne and John Price, who attacked Garcia were violent offenders with a history of armed attacks on other prisoners. Paul Payne had been transferred out of a Utah prison system for killing an inmate. Despite both men’s violent histories, they were appointed as ‘trustees’ in the administrative segregation unit.

On 17 June 1999, Payne and Price, were distributing laundry and one of them yelled out to a prison guard to unlock Garcia’s cell. When the guard opened the cell, both men allegedly ran into Garcia’s cell and stabbed him with homemade knives. The guard later admitted that she shouldn’t have opened Garcia’s cell door at the direction of an inmate, but claimed she had been poorly trained and had to ‘short-cut a lot of things’, because of the severe staff shortage on the day of the murder, the lawsuit claims. (Albuquerque Journal, 19.6.01)"

So, he did it again.

Wackenhut inmate's murder conviction upheld
Associated Press
July 22, 2003

The state Supreme Court on Monday affirmed a prison inmate's first-degree murder conviction for the death of a fellow prisoner at the Lea County Correctional Facility. The high court rejected Paul Payne's arguments on appeal that his constitutional rights were violated and there was not enough evidence to support his convictions. Payne was convicted in the June 17, 1999, death of Richard Garcia at the private prison in Hobbs, operated by Wackenhut Corrections Corp. Garcia was in an isolation cell when a guard opened the door to it, allowing Payne and another inmate — who were working as porters outside their cells — to enter. Garcia was stabbed more than 40 times.
---------------------------------------------------------------

Apparently Payne stabbed Garcia over 40 times.

Garcia, of Albuquerque, was in an isolation cell June 17 when
a guard opened the door to his cell in administrative
segregation, which allegedly allowed 2 inmates to enter and
stab him 50 times in the back, chest, head, face and arms.
Corrections officer James C. Phillips II testified Monday he
was working in the control room of the administration
segregation unit that day when he heard someone call out for
Garcias cell door to be opened. He said he saw Payne and
Price standing at the cell door and said a control room guard
opened it.
---------------------------------------------------------------

As far as Kell, I think these guys can't be reformed. They deserve whatever they get. Let God judge them.

I'd like to know why Payne was a trustie.

I would too. I did a quick search just by typing in his name (Payne) and found nothing. I will try again and see what comes up.

This story just gets more interesting the more you read into it. And how do you ever know what you read on the internet is true?

Posted 2/15/06 @ 1:12am

In response to many opinions above, no, I am not a gaurd, I did not witness the murder, I worked at this prison at this time however. My story has never changed. I am in the services are of the prison. I have a job that works very close with inamte for thier progression and health. Again, the gaurds response time was beautiful for the protocol they had, due to Kell it is updated, we now have guns in the control rooms, and this would have been over in 2 minutes. At the time, we did not. During the murder, and the riot, we required swat to respond, so 5 minutes is truley amazing. I am sorry if I came across "pissy" that is not my intent. The Troy I know is a charming, gorgeous, friendly manipulater, who is quite violent, and makes no bones about it. I just feel, energy for a cause would be better put to saving abused children or homeless dogs. I don't know what to do about the death penalty. I don't like to kill people, I don't know what else to do with Kell, and yes, I know many very violent horrible criminals due to my job, and I find them interesting, that is why I do this. I also find many of them friendly and entertaining. And I would not trust them, nor do I trust most people. It kind of ruins your life in that way.

AS IN RESPONSE TO INQUIRY OF TROY KELLS EXECUTION, HE WAS REPORTED TO HAVE NOT BEEN EXECUTED. HE WAS GIVEN A STAY. HOPE THIS HELPS YOU IN TO FINDING MORE INFORMATION FOR MR. KELL.

Date of scheduled execution State Victim name Inmate name Status
June 28, 2003 Utah Lonnie Blackmon
Unnamed victim Troy Kell stayed
Troy Michael Kell, an inmate at the Central Utah Correctional Facility in Gunnison, Utah, was charged with aggravated murder. Kell stabbed fellow inmate Lonnie Blackmon to death on July 6, 1994. Prior to the attack, Kell, a white supremacist, had been involved in race-related altercations with several African-American inmates, including Blackmon. On the day before the killing, Kell and two of his accomplices, Eric Daniels and Paul Payne, submitted medical request forms to visit the prison's medical facility. In addition, Daniels forged a medical request form in Blackmon's name so that Blackmon would be transported to the medical facility at the same time Kell and his accomplices were being transported. Moments before the attack occurred, Kell and Blackmon were moved from the upper tier of the building at the CUCF where they were housed to the lower tier where they awaited transfer to the prison's medical facility. Both Kell and Blackmon were placed in double locked handcuffs fastened to a belt around the waist. Their feet were not placed in shackles so that they could safely descend the stairs from the top tier of the cell block. By this time, Daniels had also been moved to the lower tier to go to the medical facility. Payne's request to go to the medical facility had been denied because he was in punitive isolation on the top tier of the cell block. Nevertheless, at his insistence, Payne was permitted to shower on the lower tier of the cell block rather than in the showers located on the second tier of the cell block, where his cell was located. While descending to the lower tier, Kell removed his handcuffs with a partial handcuff key that had been altered with a homemade handle made from melted plastic utensils. Kell also produced a shank. Blackmon was standing with his back to Kell talking to other inmates, when Kell began to stab him repeatedly in the neck, eyes, face, back and chest. Kell was free to use his unrestrained hands and arms during the attack, but Blackmon could only kick at his attackers to defend himself because he was still in handcuffs that were attached to his waist. Blackmon's efforts were futile in any event because Payne choked and punched him and Daniels held onto his legs during the attack. For over two and a half minutes, Kell slashed Blackmon with his shank, inflicting sixty-seven stab wounds, only two of which were described by the forensic examiner as being capable of inflicting death in the short term. Despite Blackmon's pleas to stop, Kell continued the assault and, in fact, after walking away, returned twice to inflict more wounds, until Blackmon lay motionless on the floor of the cell block. Blackmon bled to death and Kell was charged with aggravated murder. State v. Daniels, 2002 UT 2. Following two pretrial hearings, the trial court determined to hold Kell's trial in a regular courtroom located inside the CUCF. This decision was based on security risks, including Kell's criminal background, prison disciplinary record, and overall prison history. In addition, several logistical problems regarding security existed in trying Kell in either of the two courtrooms available outside the prison. Because most of the numerous witnesses in the case were either prison guards or high security inmates, the security risks and costs associated with transporting all of them to a courtroom located outside of the county would have been extremely high; thus, the trial court decided to hold the trial in the courtroom located within the confines of the prison. At trial, Kell testified that he killed Blackmon because Blackmon had overtly threatened him. According to Kell, Blackmon wanted to make an example of him to the other inmates to demonstrate Blackmon's power in the prison. Kell stated he believed Blackmon was making a threat when he overheard Blackmon say to another inmate on the day of the killing, "Yeah man . . . it's on. You know it," even though Blackmon made no threatening gestures toward Kell. Kell claimed that due to conditions in the prison and circumstances surrounding Blackmon's threats, he was suffering from "extreme emotional disturbance" at the time of the homicide. One eyewitness testified, however, that during the attack Kell's demeanor was "very business like, as cold as cold gets. It was like he was doing a job." Kell was captured on the prison security camera in the act of the murder. Kell was already serving a life sentence without the possibility of parole for a murder in Nevada. UPDATE: Kell reinstated his appeals and the execution was stayed.

I think we can all agree on the fact that Kell was probably not threatened by Blackmon. It was most likely a race-related or over a beef.

I agree with the beef part. I think it becomes racial but it usually starts with a beef.

I just wanted to know if any of you women who are writing Troy or have writen to him or even receive calls from him can tell me if there are any distinct ways to know if it is really Kell writing you, because I "heard" that he gives a good amount of his letters to "friends" in prison because he can't or won't write alot of people back, often having these friends pose as him. What does he sound like on the phone? The reason I ask this question is because my best friend wrote to him about 3 months ago and did receive a letter from him or at least allegedly...I am concerned for her as I don't want to see her hurt because she is kind of naive. Can anyone tell me how he signs his letters, if he uses any "catch phrases" or closes his letters any way inparticular. Also, can anyone tell me what he has said to you in letters because I want my friend to know because I think she is stupid enough to think she is "the one". Please post with comments.

I just wanted to know if any of you women who are writing Troy or have writen to him or even receive calls from him can tell me if there are any distinct ways to know if it is really Kell writing you, because I "heard" that he gives a good amount of his letters to "friends" in prison because he can't or won't write alot of people back, often having these friends pose as him. What does he sound like on the phone? The reason I ask this question is because my best friend wrote to him about 3 months ago and did receive a letter from him or at least allegedly...I am concerned for her as I don't want to see her hurt because she is kind of naive. Can anyone tell me how he signs his letters, if he uses any "catch phrases" or closes his letters any way inparticular. Also, can anyone tell me what he has said to you in letters because I want my friend to know because I think she is stupid enough to think she is "the one". Please post with comments.

I just wanted to know if any of you women who are writing Troy or have writen to him or even receive calls from him can tell me if there are any distinct ways to know if it is really Kell writing you, because I "heard" that he gives a good amount of his letters to "friends" in prison because he can't or won't write alot of people back, often having these friends pose as him. What does he sound like on the phone? The reason I ask this question is because my best friend wrote to him about 3 months ago and did receive a letter from him or at least allegedly...I am concerned for her as I don't want to see her hurt because she is kind of naive. Can anyone tell me how he signs his letters, if he uses any "catch phrases" or closes his letters any way inparticular. Also, can anyone tell me what he has said to you in letters because I want my friend to know because I think she is stupid enough to think she is "the one". Please post with comments.

Deena,

If you read through this post and some other sites on Troy Kell, you can clearly see all the women he is writing to. There are many. And these are just the ones that are open enough to post it on the web. I'm sure there are many others who don't even advertise that they write him. So far I found two women that actually state they are moving to Utah to be close to him. As far as his voice, rent the video "Gladiator Days" and you will be able to not only hear his voice but pick up on certain inflections of his speech. There will be no question then as to whether it's really him on the phone or not.

Deena,

His phone calls are limited & you have to get approved to be on his phone list so if he sends her the materials & his name is on them, she get approved & he calls, it has to be him. The prison moniters the calls so no one "impersonates". As far as the letters, that's harder unless someone can give you a copy of one that is his for sure.

Cass: Thanks for confirming that there is protocol that has to be followed. That's what I was wondering. Five minutes is a long time. But the gerneral public hears five minutes and they think that the gurads were just standing around watching. They don't understand that protocol is in place for a reason. Nor do they know or understand the reasons why.

And I understand what you mean when you say it kind of ruins your life in that way. Seeing first hand the incredible horror's of human nature, then the confusion of meeting the person that committed them and they don't seem to be such a monster. Do you guys have any kind of stress counseling for yourselves? If not, you certainly should.

George and Tiki: Does anyone know what the "beef" was exactly between Kell and Blackmon? Or was it simply that Kell felt Blackmon might have been a threat?

Posted 2/20/06 @ 11:43am

Tiki,

You seem to have a lot of knowledge about this. Have you talked to Troy? If so, how's he doing?

Debbie, they didn't like each other and words had been exchanged in the past. He saw Blackmon as a threat & removed the threat. He thought that if he didn't kill Blackmon, Blackmon was going to kill him. Pretty callous but that's about it.
Samantha, I exchange letters with him & he's doing fine, just trying to stay out of trouble. He figures he's got 3-5 more years of appeals. His only arguement is that the trial was held in the prison, not in a courtroom.

cass is no guard or has any sort of affiliation with that prison. many of the things he's said are factually incorrect. "someone was holding the camera to record the murder". it was taped through a security camera not someone standing there. pretty sad you are pretending to be an official so people talk to you. :(

what i dont understand about the death penalty is what discretion is used when determining whether or not to use it. I repeatedly hear terms used like "the heinousnes of the murder". I would like to imagine that any murder, against any individual is heinous in itself, whether it be a shooting, a stabbing, etc. Then i hear "this individual has killed once then killed again". Well why the hell is he interacting with other inmates? And how was Troy able to get away from the supervision of guards? If it is the prisoner's susceptability to commit the crime again, the solution is much simpler than having the state commit murder. You put him in lockup 23 hours a day with the one hour of excercise. I don't understand how the gov't seems to have a 2 wrongs make a right mentality. Yes the victim's family has suffered here along with other families who have endured this type of act. However what about the families of the people being executed? Their feelings are disregarded? Why should the family of the murderer have to suffer for something they did not do? Personally I feel rotting away in prison is a harder way to go out then being killed right away. I just cannot comprehend what the justifications the gov't has behind killing. Like Troy said "killing is killing....we can all justify our actions in one way or another". Like one poster said earlier, if someone were to kill your mother, and you went and killed that person, you would go to jail and be punished. Seems the whole idea behind the death penalty is a complete paradox.

Tiki: I kind of guessed that, but you never know what happens in prison. It could have been something like Kell did not pay Blackmon for drugs that had been delivered or something. The more time I have to think about the whole thing, and everything that my godforsaken mind can imagine, I am so confused. Death Penalty or no? Everyone on this page makes some great & intelligent points. There are so many ways to read the exact same story and come up with different suggestions on how it should end. The more people you involve in the decision, the trickier it becomes. Like Eric saying, why should Kell's family pay for something that they didn't do?

Eric, my whole point before was kill them all on Death Row. Then, Jennifer made some points about Capital Murder and how much it costs, and the appeals. Now, I'm like in limbow. I'm not sure where I stand. I agree with you that there are no set lines for determining who gets death and who doesn't. It's all based on a case by case basis because no two cases are exactly alike. But does that make it right? Or fair? The laws are so different from state to state how could we ever make them uniform? And how could the CJ system make everyone happy? It can't.

One last thing, I know from experience that there are some who, when they get out of jail or prison, can't wait to go back. Live I've said before, it's three squares a day, the gym, the games, the books, college, making money, the best physical and mental health, cable and it's all on our dime. I say we should reinstate the chain gang. Make them (the one's that are not a high risk for flight) go out and clean up the highways, or do some really meaningful job (so they gain self esteem) that noone wants to do. They can pick up road debris, working in shifts. That way our highways stay safe and clean and they give back to the community. Just the first of many ideas on what to do with them......

Posted 2-21-06 @ 12:25am

********* Correction on the above post **************

It was Tiki not Jennifer that made the point about the cost.

Sorry Tiki - props to ya!!! :)

Debbie, im not sure where you live and what kind of conception you have of prison but im almost 100% positive they dont get internet, cable tv, and all that jazz. At most they get to read books and if your on good behaviour you're allowed to work prison jobs or try and get an education. Its all a matter of perspective if these things are good or bad. If the goal of prison is to rehabilitate, and change your life, wouldn't you want prisoners trying to make a change? I would think getting their GED's and being productive instead of sitting in their cell, plotting to kill guards and other prisoners, aka Troy Kell (who from what i hear was NOT involved in productive prison activities) would be a good thing. However if your on the other end of the spectrum and believe you should lock the "animal" up, throw away the key, and give him nothing but bread and water, then so be it. But again the words of Troy Kell, "don't expect the person to be a nice guy". I can't imagine what kind of mental drain that would be to sit in my cell all day long with no activities whatsoever. Hell, I go crazy when I am stuck in my house for 2 days straight with nothing to do!

Troy only gets out of his cell for 45 minutes every other day to walk in a small cement room by himself. Drive me crazy after one day.

Why are you bitches sweating over Troy? I've been fucking his daddy for a dozen years, and we have a whole new litter of the worst motherfuckers to replace Troy! We're putting them up for sell as soon as they reach puberty, which is kind of hard to tell. Ya see, they're kind of short on dick--like Troy--because Troy's daddy doesn't have much dick, which is partly why he does not appear in the "Gladiator Days"!

It sure is easy being a shithead when you can hide behind Internet anonymity, isn't it?

Eric, I know that local jails don't offer internet and all that. But once you get to the stockade (long term incarceration), you live the high life. It is three squares a day, gym, cable, internet, free school (in house), the BEST medical and psyche care and contact visits. You may have to be on your best behavior to earn these privlleges, or be able to pay someone cash, but these privlleges are available. Oh yeah, and they can work and get paid!!! (I looked it up in the dictionary because I wasn't sure I spelled it right and it still doesn't look right).??? Anyway, why do you think that there are so many repeat offenders? If they were going to a chain gang they would think twice or three times about it.

I'm all for rehabilitation, but there are some that cannot be rehabilitated. Kell for instance. He is an absolute monster. And would kill again no doubt. Also the Iceman, if you guys know who he is? He should never be let out on the streets.

I feel we also have to acknowledge that minorities are the most vulernable to commit crimes. The majority of statistics speaks for itself. If you take the average criminal, black or white that is a reapeat offender and ask the question "Why?" they will not be able to give an answer that would explain thier situation or behavior. It is all they know.

Eric: Can you imagine a world that would not be able to put a juvenille in jail for stealing a car because they are so over-crowded there is just no room? It happens every day.

As I've said before I work in LE. We had the magistrate from our county court issue a letter telling our Officers not to take anyone to jail for minor offenses because there is no room. By minor I mean a habitual traffic offender, a petty theft warrant for $50.00. When I heard that I almost fell over. We are LE, and we are being advised that we cannot do our job to the fullest of our ability?

Posted 2/26/06 @ 2:12am

Maybe we should stop cramming our jails & prisons full of potheads.

Amen Tiki!

Tiki,

I read in one of your earlier posts that you said you are a straight male and are married. Yet you have the same email address as the person signing off as "Mrs. Kell" what's up with that?

Lol....good eye Just wondering!

I cant stand how people are sooooooo into this guy "Troy" hes in jail!!!!!!!!!!!!

Oh and mrs.kell (as you call your self) why do you have the E-mail address as Tiki? Are you Tiki?Just pretending to be some one else so you can stick up for Mrs.Kell?

It was a joke, moron.

Tiki: You said it!! We def should stop wasting time with the pot heads. Is it true that pot is like a starter drug? For me it was. Well, beer first. Well no, cig's first, then beer, then pot, the coke, then ex. And for me that was the end of the line. Thank god or whoever. Alot of this is socio-economics. If that's even a word. If not it should be. The rich get richer, the poor get poorer and the middle man is about to get erased. But we have to understand that for some people crime IS that only choice. Am I crazy for thinking this? And it's not a black/white issue anymore. It ALL depends on where you are raised and in what culture. Most minorities are not afraid to go to jail. What is wrong with this picture?

Not to beat a dead horse, I feel that women who only try to "catch" a prisoner are asking for whatever they get. And they should not be allowed to sue anyone for their mistakes in judgement. I'm not saying anything - I'm just sayin.

Posted 3/1/2006 @ 1:43am

Just to be 100% clear: Tiki I am serious about the pot heads. I hear stories of people going to jaill for having like 1 joint on them and they get 10 years.

Just wanted to confirm that I was not being a smart-ass!!

:)

I have known Troy since he came to the utah state prison in 93. So this was before the Blackmon killing, he actually wrote to me four days before he killed Blackmond and said I'd probably hear about something on the news and if he was killed he loved me. I have four of Troy Kells god-children. Anyone who actually really knows Troy knows who I am I am the only woman that goes to see him every Sat and talks to him three times a week for the last 13 years. I know Troy's parents VERY well his step parents also. The comments made on the documentary about the absent mother, abusive father is totally wrong.
I know him have since before he was the high profile guy, I actually spoke to him after everytime he talked to HBO I saw him through the trial, and was 8 months pregnant with his closest godson Thor Michael whom he named. Everyone associated with his case knows me well the gurads his case worker his past and present att. The point of me even bothering to talk to a group of people who don't know anything about the guy, even the people who think they do you're the ones who pay my phone bill and xmas for his godchildren.
Troy is a product of growing up in the prison system. He asked me on Christmas eve 2005 to be his legal wife, and unfortunately the warden and captain wouldn't approve. PLease unless you spend years in a very violent prison system don't get on your computer and post comments because you saw a chopped up piece of film about a crime that took place somewhere that you have never been in an enviornment you know nothing about. Who can say what would have happened if troy didnt act when he did we may be on here writing about Lonnie killing him, wait no we wouldn't, because we wouldnt have ever heard about a black on white crime. At the begining of the tape it shows blacks stabbing whites whites stabbing whites blacks stabbing blacks but spend 30 minutes on the one white guy killing the black guy. I asked Troy not to do this documentary as well as not to let hbo make a movie about it unless it was shown uncut, he failed to do this so its shown just 30 minutes out of hours of tape they aired what the wanted too and left out what they wanted.
I have know troy long enough and saw him go through changes. He doesnt want people writing him anymore, he wants to move out of utah and to move somewhere he can hug his godchildren when they come visit, this is what he wants. not hate mail fan mail or anything else. He has been kept for 7 years in a locked down status with 4 days a week rec. time to use the phone shower etc. He is allowed 3 visits per month, and my sister and I, his godchildren as well as his family are the only ones who visit. He is a great guy he gives my kids letters cards poems, he listens to everything they say and gets tears in his eyes when we leave visiting. Please don't give your opinions about his life his sentance or what happened unless you've been in that situation should he have let himself get killed? Life in there is nothing like life out here. I will continue till the day one of us dies to be his support structure and he is mine, I make no excuses or ask anyones opinion or permission he is now and will forever be a part of my family. Like I said if you have ever known Troy you will know who I am and who my kids are.

Do i detect some jealousy there? If Troy didn't want these women writing to him why would he write back? And you ask us not to voice our opinions. That's unfair. This is our country, our penal system, and just because the topic is some guy you feel attatched to doesn't mean that it will go away. Troy made his own decisions, he put himself where he is. I agree, he may have been a product of the penal system, but again, he made his own decisions. I'm sure Troy has a heart, i'm sure he sheds a tear every now and then, but he is where he needs to be. Even before the prison system got a hold of him he shot a man 6 times. It would have been so much easier for him to pick up a phone and report this guy.
And you say that the reports about his parents were totally wrong. He was not a product of an abusive home? His other real life friends all say they saw this coming. And if i'm not mistaken didn't sandy's mother say she wished she could have done something for him? What did she mean by that?

You say Troy is a great guy, but you have to think about the situation he is in now. Does he really have a choice? You are there to give him social interaction. The cards he gives your kids are a way for him to pass time. You're setting yourself up for heartbreak. This is not going to go away. Troy will never be free. Troy will die in prison. Why would you want to do that to yourself and your kids? What will you tell your kids when they can't see him anymore because he was executed?

Angela I'm not judging you, but I do feel sorry for you. You have your heart wrapped up in a guy you can't even hold. That has to suck. There are so many more fish in the sea.

Deb, I was referring to the idiot that didn't catch on about the Mrs. Kell joke. I totally agree with you.

Angela H,
Thank you for the info. But,a few questions come to mind -First, is if you're having all these kids by another guy, how come Troy wants you to be his wife? Also, if you do have kids, what's the deal with the father(s)? How does he (they) feel about you being so devoted to another man? Three visits every month, and phone calls 3x week, all while pumping out another man's kids? Sounds like an interesting situation. ALso to all the women out there who are taken in by his charm, you heard it here -that the money you are sending to him is going to this woman to pay her bills.(?!) NICE guy, that Troy!! Where do I sign up to be his 1001st sucker?!!

Jenny,

Amen to that! I couldn't have said it better myself!

I read the post from AngelaH earlier and I decided to wait to see what happened. I'm so glad I did. If AngelaH thinks Kell is a nice guy, what the hell kind of men is she used to? Don't they say "Bird's of a feather...."

Tiki: You rock!!! Thanks!! :)

Jenny & Alana: DAMN! As Alana said, "Jenny, I couldn't have said it better myself!!" Thank You!!!

Also, why do all these women feel that they have to validate their realtionship w/ Kell? To us of all people? Who are they trying to convince? Do they think that we REALLY care one way or the other? I mean, this is an interesting post and all but it's a little pitiful how many women claim to be 'the one' for him.

Have a good night!! Posted 3/1/06 @ 11:53pm

Wow, if these girls are funding your christmas, why would you announce that? Stupid is as Stupid does.

"he actually wrote to me four days before he killed Blackmond and said I'd probably hear about something on the news and if he was killed he loved me"

Who's Blackmond? HA/HA And how are WE funding her god-babies X-mas? Can someone with some sense please explain?

That fool will probably never log back on.... Anyway, please explain!!!

Have a good night - posted 3/4/06 @ 12:26am

Oh, wait. Let me guess, welfare?

Did I win?

This remains to be amazing, and yes I do work in the prison, And yes, an officer did take the camera off the stand and make sure it was on film. Its like no one can know him, it upsets some people. And Angela, again, Troy is very likable! But as Alana says, find another, he is not available.

Mrs. Kell, AKA ‘Tiki’ AKA “TK Girl”
The following are posts by you. The contradictions speak for themselves….

(To see other statements by this psycho fraud, go to www.prisonerlife.com/p-guestbook.
The following are clips of her posts that best show her deception.)

janet,
... I don't suggest mailing him as he is cold blooded murderer but if you feel you have to, go ahead. From what I've read you probably won't get a response anyway.
Posted by: Mrs. Kell on December 31, 2005 12:05 AM ("Cold blooded killer"? Trying to dissuade anyone else from writing him)

….I can see from my posts that I might have appeared to be a groupie from the past postings but I assure you I an a straight male as my wife would confirm.
Posted by: Tiki on February 7, 2006 08:58 PM (did you get that-straight male with a wife!!? Groupie? You said it not me)

Title: James Date Posted: February 7, 2006 From: TKGirl Email: 4grizzly@excite.com BTW, TK stands for my boyfriend Todd K. (oh, ok, now she’s got a boyfriend, who just happens to have Troy Kell‘s initials. What happened to the wife?!!)

Date Posted: February 7, 2006 From: TKGirl Email: 4grizzly@excite.com ..I just wrote him after I saw the documentary in 2002 & have been friends ever since. It's just been the last few months that I've managed to get letter to him every week. …(so you write this “cold blooded killer” every week!!? Gee, looks like you should heed your own advice)

Title: mlv77950 Date Posted: February 28, 2006 From: TKGirl Email: Where do you get compulsion from? I was curious & I haven't written him for almost a year. If I were feeling compulsions about Troy, I would still be writing him, don't you think? ….(but you just SAID on Feb 7th, only THREE weeks ago -you get a letter to him EVERY week! Which is it?! And Compulsion? uh, yeah!)

(She was Just curious, however she states she’s been writing to him since 2002! How can we believe anything this multi-personality says?)

Well, there you have it. This girl has got issues. Say what you will to others, Tiki, TKGirl, “Mrs. Kell”, but looks like YOUR back yard is the one that needs tending…

Nice research, Max, but you still haven't nailed who I am. Try, try again! And compulsion? You're right! Compulsion to rile people like you up!
Deb, you're too funny. I'm thinking you're dead on!

So tiki have you talked to troy lately? I really miss him I went to school with him and he was so sweet!

Kelly, Not for a while, why don't you write him?

No I am not on welfare I am actually a registered nurse, but i refuse to pay for phone calls from the prison. I married my highschool sweetheart who back in 1993 was in prison with troy. Thats how I know him is they wrote one another once my husband was released. I have four kids by the same man, and I work and he works, yes its an interesting situation but over a decade relationship builds a love and trust ofcourse. Troy doesnt talk to sandy's mother and I talk to his mother so I was honest when saying his parents are very good people my children love them. I know that troy writes to lots of girls like i said I dont send him money so he needs others too, thats what guys do in prison. I am not jealous there is only one woman that he visits and only one that sees his parents no need to be jealous and ya I do my own thing out here.

Angela, explain this to us if you will. You're a married woman and Troy knows this, yet he asks you to marry him? What's up with that? Was Troy and your husband lovers in prison? I just don't get it! And tell me, isn't it illegal to marry twice? You said the warden wouldn't permit it...what about the state? Are you willing to become a bigamist for this man? And what about your husband? Do you not respect him enough to not let it get this far?

And Tiki...tell us who you are! The suspense is killing me. Lol. I haven't bothered to read all your posts, Yeah i'm a lazy bitch, but I did read the ones posted by mrs kell and it didn't take long to figure out it was sarcasm.

Troy Kell is really a very sick person! I hate his sorry butt for what his actions have done to my best friend. My best friend been in prison since 15 because of him! Why don't they just kill the sob already!!

Angela, married women can't visit inmates at the Utah State Prison. Nice try though.

Tiki no one gives a shit who you are! Get a life! Obsessing over a man that is on death row, and a conniving user of women, not to mention a multiple murderer. I think Max said it all- you are a psycho. And you are a little too obsessed with Troy Kell and these blog sites.

User of women? Do you know this first hand darling?

Tiki, if I respond to your email will the right person get it?

Yeah I was married to him for 6 months and he got me pregnant and now won't pay any child support.

This is for Angela H,I do know Troy as a matter of fact, and I do know "your situation" with him, I also know that you are no longer a visitor of his. I really don't think you know "your friend" Troy as well as you think you do. Let's just say that you are not as exclusive as you think you are, because I know his family as well. Because he is a friend and I respect his privacy, I won't give out too much detail, but so that you know I am legit...I will tell you that his mother's (not step mother's) name begins with a "C"...got your attention? As for your relationship with him? Well, I don't think you are going to have to concern yourself with that too much longer...I too have had detailed conversations with Troy and I know all about your situation and why he associates with you, as I said, if you think you are the one...well, just ask yourself why it doesn't bother him that you are involved with another guy because I know any man who "loves" a woman, would never be ok with her having someone else. I asked him about "your relationship" and the only thing he had to say about that is that he appreciates you and your ex allowing him to be part of your family because of his "god-children". So don't think you are this, that, and the other to him, you are merely a friend, and that "Angela H" came directly from his mouth when I talked to him a few days ago. Take Care. Oh as for the earlier post, you know where I asked if anyone could give me information because a friend was writing him, blah, blah, blah; well that was to see if anyone legitimate was corresponding with ol' Troy. You don't believe me...ask me anything you'd like about his family, etc...Age, b-day, whatever...Afterall, how else would I know that you are divorced, and that you are no longer on his visitors list as of I think he said last month? I forget, as he doesn't spend too much time discussing "his friend, the mother of his god children". One last thing, if he was so in love with you, then why has it taken him "13" years to ask you to be his wife? The only reason you were his only female visitor is because Utah State Prison will only allow one single female visitor to visit. Thought you were special? I'll have to share with Troy when he calls me on Monday, Wednesday, Friday of this week or next weeks rotation, Tuesday, Thursday or Saturday.

This is for Max...That last posting was halarious, I too have seen all the postings here there and everywhere from TK girl, Mrs. Kell etc......Nice job in piecing them together. For all we know, we could add "Angela H" to that list of personalities. Too funny!

Jenny, yep, just put Tiki in the subject line.
Way to go Deena!

Deena, btw, I don't know Troy & don't live in Utah so you can cross my personalities off that list.

This just amazes me. Deena and Angela, you guys have got to get a life. You are arguing on the internet about who means more to this man. This man is a piece of shit, a waste of good flesh. I feel sorry for both of you. And Deena, you've already shown that you're not sure about Troy from your previous post. You ladies don't understand, Troy can tell you what you want to hear, doesn't mean it's the truth. I'm sure he tells angela he loves her and wants to marry her, but now he wants your attention so he'll change his tune and tell you what you want to hear. Classic. You will never get anything from Troy, You will never hold him, make love to him, or whatever. You're both wasting your time. He's playing both of you and God only knows how many more.

Jen-
HAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAAAAAAAAAAA! Very well spoken & right to the point!

Jenny or anyone else with interest: I never said I was romantically involved with him or wanted to be. If you'd read a little closer you'd have seen that I said I know him well. We have been friends since childhood, back in Vegas. Yes, Troy has friends also. I know him better than most do. I am not fighting with anyone, (Angela included, I know who she is)and I don't understand how you or anyone like you can post messages talking as though you know his story. You are the one who needs "the feeling sorry for" because if you weren't interested in "some way" you wouldn't spend your time talking about "this peice of shit" as you put it. I checked this site out, out of curiousity because I was doing research for him and that is how I discovered the "many Troy Kell worshipers in the world" which is funny to me. Do yourself a favor and quit talking about stuff you know nothing about. As for you tiki, Mrs. Kell, Tk girl (what a joke) you should get a job and a life and stop trying to live vicariously through Troy. To anyone else who has an issue with my friend, he doesn't give a shit about anything any of you say about him, as a matter of fact he thinks you people are entertaining because you have nothing in your own life worth talking about so you have to talk about his. One last time for those who couldn't read or who don't understand, you don't know the man, and he couldn't care less about those who write him, as he puts it, "I think these people are funny, and I appreciate them writing even those with a negative opinion, but most letters I give to my friends in here, some end up writing eachother for a long time." I honestly think that those of you who are here, are either pissed off because you tried corresponding with Troy and he blew you off, or you are jealous because even from behind bars he has more of a life than you do. I hear Charles Manson receives alot of mail as well. Here is a thought, why don't you people start a blog on him, he's been in prison alot longer than Troy. ha ha ha ha ha ha

God Deena, you just wrecked yourself. Get jealousy management classes when you sign up for anger management. You poooooooor thing. As far as multiple personalities goes. Hi Tryxxie. Nice try Deena. We should all copy & paste this forum to Troy so he knows what you're up to also! I'd really hate to wreck your "boyfriend/girlfriend" thing with him. Come on everybody at once! Hey psycho, it's your birthday, we're gonna party like it's your birthday! Take Lithium like it's your birthday, because we don't give a fuck cuz it'syour birthday!

Dumb ass, (Tiki)Get a life weirdo. See ya!

Oh yeah tiki, I mean "stgirl" yet another one, you really need some type of counseling.

One last thing Tiki, stgirl, tk girl,Mrs. Kell, on and on and on, maybe you should see your doc about cutting back on your lithium, it is really having the opposite effect on you? And do write Troy, I'm sure he'd love to laugh at you, you crazy fool.

Deena, you are really delusional. Good luck with that. Who the hell is stgirl anyway!

Deena, as I told Angela, we may not know him personally, but he chose to put his story out there, and again, just because he is some man you feel attatched to doesn't mean you can make us go away. Obviously you feel some need to gain some kind of social status because you know this violent criminal. All you're doing is making yourself look like a fool. And do tell us, what kind of 'research' could you possibly be doing for Troy that would lead you here? Hmmm?

And you're right, there is nothing in my life as interesting as this to talk about, and I hope to God there never will be. Deena, you fall in the same category as the rest of these girls. What could you possibly gain from him? Again, Troy tells you what you want to hear. I'm sure there are plenty of women you don't know about, and if it is all a joke to him why would he take the time to write back? And tell us, if he has no interaction with other inmates, how does he pass along his mail?

You make yourself look like an idiot. Nobody really gives a shit about Troy, he's just an interesting topic. And if what we say here hurts your feelings then you're the one with issues. Troy is not the same guy you went to school with, he is a product of the system now. You can't do anything for him. I don't know what kind of crusade you are on but whatever it is it's not gonna work. Troy is going to die for what he did, you can't change that. And honestly, we don't really give a shit what Troy has to say about our postings. If he doesn't like our opinions don't send them to him.

And from your first post.....
I just wanted to know if any of you women who are writing Troy or have writen to him or even receive calls from him can tell me if there are any distinct ways to know if it is really Kell writing you, because I "heard" that he gives a good amount of his letters to "friends" in prison because he can't or won't write alot of people back, often having these friends pose as him. What does he sound like on the phone? The reason I ask this question is because my best friend wrote to him about 3 months ago and did receive a letter from him or at least allegedly...I am concerned for her as I don't want to see her hurt because she is kind of naive. Can anyone tell me how he signs his letters, if he uses any "catch phrases" or closes his letters any way inparticular. Also, can anyone tell me what he has said to you in letters because I want my friend to know because I think she is stupid enough to think she is "the one". Please post with comments.

Would that 'friend' happen to be you? And if that was for research why did you only ask about women corresponding with him? Are you worried there are others? Cause there are. And if you know him like you claim you do, you would have no doubt.

Either way, you can't stop the forums, you can't stop the women from wanting him, you can't make him yours, and you can't stop his death. So rant and rave if you will, but again, it's not going to go away. And I never said I didn't have an interest in Troy. I would love to know how his mind works. He stabbed a man 67 times. How on earth does a sane man do that?Wether or not he was protecting himself, 67 times is a bit much. Why not just go for the heart a few times? He stabbed this man in the face, repeatedly. He was enjoying himself. During those 5 minutes he felt all powerful, he was totally in the moment, and he was loving it. As someone else previously posted, it was overkill. There was no need for that. Deena, I think you should watch the killing again, and ask yourself what you're doing.
I feel like no matter what is said to these women it won't help. I keep having to repeat myself, they make me sound redundant. Lol. They all feel 'special' to Troy, and even after reading the posts from other women they all think they're the one. I just don't get it.

And Drizz, thanks for the oppurtunity ;).

I can't believe you guys are arguing over this man?? When did he become so important? What he needs to do is open his mouth and say Sandy never told him to kill that man so she can come home and live her life. I find it sad that he is still ruining lifes. How could anyone ever be proud that they were ever married to a man that kills people in cold blood and lets his 15 year old friend take the fall? Sandy never wanted that man dead but Troy took it apon himself to kill him instead of telling the man to leave Sandy alone. Now Sandy is sitting in prison missing her life and the life of her family because of Troy mac stupid @$$!

Good post!!!! Very well said!

Jenny, "This just amazes me. Deena and Angela, you guys have got to get a life. You are arguing on the internet about who means more to this man. This man is a piece of shit, a waste of good flesh. I feel sorry for both of you. And Deena, you've already shown that you're not sure about Troy from your previous post. You ladies don't understand, Troy can tell you what you want to hear, doesn't mean it's the truth. I'm sure he tells angela he loves her and wants to marry her, but now he wants your attention so he'll change his tune and tell you what you want to hear. Classic. You will never get anything from Troy, You will never hold him, make love to him, or whatever. You're both wasting your time. He's playing both of you and God only knows how many more."

I was doing some more 'research' (hehe) and found this...

The tape showed Kell grabbing a towel to wipe the blood off his hands. He yelled “white power” to inmates who looked on and cheered. Medical examiners said the knife was dull, causing a painful death that was likely executed within one minute because of severe injuries to Blackmon's jugular vein and carotid artery.
Witnesses said Kell brutally and methodically slaughtered Blackmon like an animal. Kell tried to say it could have just as easily been him dead at Blackmon’s hands. He pled for his life, but jurors didn’t buy it.

They decided Kell deserved to receive the death penalty for taking Blackmon’s life. He is currently on death row in Utah awaiting his sentence.

Where most saw animalistic evil in Kell, Vickie Gregory saw pain. The forensic psychologist conducted neuropsychological testing on and interviewed Kell for 45 hours before the trial and saw a young man who was a victim of the prison system. His affiliation with white supremacy had developed in prison as a means of survival, she said.

There was no denying he committed the crime and should be punished for his act of violence, but paying for the murder with his life was too severe in Gregory’s eyes.

“He was criminally responsible, there was no doubt he did it,”
said Gregory ’75. “The prison made him that person. I saw it through his eyes.”

During the trial, Gregory testified on Kell’s behalf for his defense team. She told jurors being locked up in isolation with no contact to the outside world was causing Kell sensory deprivation. She learned Kell was bounced between his divorced parents from the age of eight until he found himself in prison at 18 for the murder in Nevada.

Kell, who suffers from attention deficit hyperactivity disorder, never had a chance, according to Gregory. The death penalty verdict haunts her to this day.

I understand being a victum of the system but at some point you have to want more. He has ruined to many lifes for me to feel any compassion for him. I talk to Sandy's mom almost everyday. Her Daughter made a huge mistake when she asked Kell to help her. Believe me when I say Sandy's situation before the NV killing wasn't much better then his but some how she went to prison and has turned her life around. What is Kell accuse for continuing his maddness? They have him classified as sensory deprived. @@ whatever. You go to prison and you make the best of it. It is your choice to get in the mess or use it to better your life. They have programes that will help you do it but you have to want it! Kell appearantly didn't want to change. He went in and got into the mess. He deserves whatever he gets in my Personnal opinion. But I am bias to the situation. Sandy saved my life and Kell has ruined hers so far. It is so hard to not be able to see and talk to my best friend.

Sorry I haven't been posting, I threw my back out. But I'm getting better. And back!!!

Jenny: I'm not gay (not that there's anything wrong with it :)) but I love you!!! Reading all that crap I again, could not have said it better myself. Just for shit's and giggles I'm gonna write Kell a letter and call Utah State Prison and see what I can find out.

For the nay sayers: It's not that we don't have a life, it's just that we are informed and watch what is going on in the world. Our lives are not substansiated by who's baby daddy owe's money this week or what gift we have to sell to pay the electric bill next week. We are actually intelligent and we are productive in society. And, we find these post's interesting. Kell has touched/hurt so many people, we have felt a need to express our feelings. And that is absolutely healthy. However, going after a man that is incarcerated for life is not. I asked my therapist and she agree's!!! HAHAHAH

Anyhow, Jenny, don't feel bad. I REALLY don't have a life either. This is absolutely what I LIVE for. If this post goes away I literally will die.

Does anyone really think that Sandy is as innocent as she claims?

For us "normal" people, we have to remember that economic impact has to have a deciding factor in this. People with less opportunites are less likely to choose that "right" answer than people that come from middle or upper class income's. Now, I lived in a trailer park, when I was young and when I was older. So, I have to assume that it ALL really comes down to my will and my social perceptions to do the right thing or make the right decisions. I personally would never break a law now. Not that I haven't in the past. But it all comes down to me. My decisions, my thought process. My choices. I could choose to buy a gun, for protection purposes only. And I can choose when I will use that gun and not when to use that gun.

It's all about responsibility, and taking responsibility for your actions. And no one wants to take responsibility for their actions.

Posted 3/15/2006 @ 1:59AM

I do think Sandy is as innocent as she say and the documents I have read on her. Kell is a loser!!!!!

I think Sandy did not know Troy would kill Cotton Kelly, I do think she asked him to help, and I do think she went with him knowing it would not all be good, and then when it was over she did not turn him in. For these reason she is now in prison, However, I don't understand her lengthy sentence, their are killers where I work, that actually did the work, and they are up for and or did parole! what is up with that?
Cass

While Cass you hit the nail on the head. Sandy didn't know Kell was going to kill that man all she asked him t do was beat him up so the guy would leave her alone. Like most 15 year olds they don't think anything really bad will happen and Sandy had already seen how the system doesn't work. The reason for her long sentence is internal NV government mistakes that they refuse to fix. NV fucked up and if they admit it they would have to pay alot. It is hard but someday NV will have to face their mistakes in Sandy's case.

Cass....ever notice if you were to go speeding down the road, in a hurry for a good reason, you would be the one to get pulled over? But the habitual speeders never get caught? Same scenario. Justice is just not fair.

I believe Sandy was also a victim. Not as innocent as some would like to think, but she did get caught up in a bad situation. And I think her sentencing was unfair. I don't think she is a bad apple, she just made a stupid decision and Troy took it too far. Granted, they did get a child molestor off the streets, and I don't feel sorry for the guy one bit. But again, Sandy took the oppurtunity to better herself. I thikn if she was freed today she would become a productive member of society. It could have just as easily happened to me. If I was in that situation, I can't honestly say I would take it to the authorities before I took it to someone to kick his ass for me.

I don't know what Sandy was thinking during the days that followed, but I don't think she was showing and telling like everyone claimed. I'm not sure why she brought people back to the body, but I don't believe it was to 'show off'. I would be scared to death if I saw this man shoot another guy like Kell did. You have to wonder what was going on in her head. She said in the documentary that she went back to the body because she didn't believe it was real. I don't believe that for an instant. I'm sure there is some psychological explanation, but I have no idea what it is!

Please post your opinions, somebody enlighten me.

Posted 3/15/06 @ 2:24pm

Crystal, what mistakes are you refering to?

Crystal, what mistakes are you refering to?

Mistake 1 the DA was best frieds with the victum!

You want to know why Sandy took someone out to the body. Well it wasn't to brag. She truely was unsure of what happened. Sandy had gone through alot before the death of Cotton. The things that she had witnessed before cotton had desenitized (sp) her to death. She never took the girl to the body she had her drive out to were the body was and never got out of the car. Once she realized that it wasn't a dream she had the girl take her home. Late the girl took another friend out to see want Sandy had flipped out about and found the body. They robbed the body and then called the police. I know that it is hard for people to believe that Sandy didn't believe what happened but I had read the psy reports on her case and it is true. She did not believe that Cotton was dead until she went out there.
Sandy is a good hearted person and after spending 6 years with her I can do nothing but fight for her. She took me under her wing and opened my eyes. Because of her my daughter has a mommy the is a productive member of society.

Crystal, what could have been so bad in Sandy's life prior to this that would have desensitized her to death? I don't believe that for an instant. And all the reports I have read on the case say that they robbed him the night he was killed, not a few days later by another girl.

Sandy has been locked up since 86 right? You said she saved your life...was that something she did as a kid? I'm not harping on you, or even ridiculing you, I'm just trying to understand. You said you are a productive member of society because of her....care to elaborate on that?

And if the D.A. was best friends with the victim wouldn't he have been thrown off the case due to conflict of interest? And even if he wasn't thrown off the case how would being his friend influence anything?

Sandy had witness a murder sucide at a sleep over and about a year later she was walking home from school with another girl and the girls boyfriend shot and killed the girl. She just could not believe that it was all happening again.

When I was 16 I was influnced by a man and did a series of robberies for him that landed me in an adualt prison. At the time I was pregnant and very stupid. I that a problem with athority and no one could tell me shit. Sandy took me under her wing for those 5 years and opened my eyes. Because of her I changed my life and got my priorties right. I owe her my life for opening my eyes to what is important.

The DA was kick off the case and then transfered over to the PD office causing her PD to drop the case 2 weeks before the trial. When they got a new lawyer they asked for time and the judge said no. The sad part about all of this is that that is just the tip of the iceberg of fuck up the system pulled on her. I hope this helps you understand more.

I don't feel you are ridiculing me at all. I like the fact that you are asking questions. Most people just assume they know because of what the media wrote about the case. Which 99.9% of what they wrote was wrong! Which is why you don't know that the girl and her friend robbed the body. I think I Kell and his friend took some money but that was it everything else was taken by the girl and the guy friend the girl brought out to see the body. I will be talking to Sandy in the morning I will double check for you.

I told her about this board to night and she wants me to send her a copy of it. When I get the chance I will. I am sure she may have something to say if I messed up any details. Either that or her mom will get around to looking at it fix them for you or have me do it.

Let me remember when I was 15 or so. I was turning towards the "dark side" and at that point would I have ever had a "friend" beat someone up just because (for whatever reason)? No. And let me think about it some more.... NO!!! As naive as we are when we are young, to me this is no defense for right and wrong. You know it is wrong to have someone do something for you that has the potential for ending in violence. Kell was no saint before the Cotton murder. And my guess is that neither was Sandy.

My life, being as f***ed up as it was, I did make some bad decisions and quite a few mistakes. BUT, I NEVER put anyone else in harm's way. My conscience was (and still is) over sensitive.

Having said that, let's go w/ what cass said, "and I do think she went with him knowing it would not all be good". What does that show? What does that mean? That because of circumstances beyond her control she can't be held accountable? If she had never mentioned it to Kell maybe Cotton would still be alive? Even at 15 or 16 you KNOW what is right and what is wrong. Especially if you have been previously abused in some way. Most times when you are abused you will go the extra 10 miles not to abuse others in any way. Most of the time.

Was her sentence fair? No. Absolutely not. But...

Does everyone understand that the courts have info that is not released to the public? And that they base their decision's on past criminal history and minor run in's with the law? First time offenders get off easy. Especially if you are only dealing with minor traffic infractions or minor misdemeanors. Once you reach felony level and w/ repeat offenders everything changes.

Were Kell and Sandy brought up in the most despicable conditions you and I can't imagine? Where choice is gone. And normal thought is thrown aside? Where living depends solely on your will to survive? Theft, rape and murder were the only means of survival? Kill or be killed?

If so then maybe I can understand. MAYBE. If not then: The wheel's of justice turn slowly and it's only a matter of time.

Posted 3/16/06 @ 2:23am

Debbie S. it is easy to judge someone if you don't have all the info but I have read the case file and all the mess the courts pulled on Sandy. Sandy had never been in trouble before her life took a turn for the worse of watching people dying around her. Though you may not understand her sentence is very unfair. I am not saying that she did not make the wrong choice or that she hasn't taken responsiblity for her part in the situation. she does take responsibilty for her part. But how long does she have to pay for a bad choice and 15 year old could make?

Lets not forget that Sandy was only 15 and had a 22 year old trying to get in her pant as while as harrassing her to pose for nude pictures. I agree she should have went about it differently but is it a surprise that she asked someone that was a friend to handle it for her. IMPO no! Yes, you may know right from wrong by 15 but are you aware that the frontal lobe of the brain controls your logic and judgement is not fully developed untill you are about 21 or older. Why do you think they don't want people drinking until 21? Because they are feel at that age everything is developed and they will make better choices for themselves.
Sandy made a mistake by ask a friend that she had known since before kindergarden to help her. She didn't know Kell was a cold blooded killer and she didn't know what else to do.
Judge all you want but please believe when I say the courts didn't take Sandy's whole case into mind when they sent her to jail. Becareful of how you judge others because you will someday be judge with the same colored lens that you judge now.

You agree that a mistake that was never intented should be punished by the courts in the same matter as first degree murder. If Sandy wanted Cottons Drug selling child molestor behind dead don't you think she would have given Kell her mothers gun in which she had full access too? Just a little food for thought!

Ok, so I was wrong, maybe a few things did happen to Sandy before all this happened. I watched the documentary a few times, and like I said, I haven't thought of Sandy all that much, but now that you mention it I do remember Sandys mom talking about her witnessing death. But in my opinion, if you witness something like that wouldn't it make you appreciate life more and not desensitize you?

And Debbie, ever heard the saying 'break the cycle of violence'? If you are abused as a child you are more likely to become an abuser yourself. And it happens everyday. Sisters asking brothers to beat up their ex boyfriends for whatever reason. Nobody can say for sure if Sandy knew about Troys plan to kill him. Troy may not have even had a plan, it may have been a last minute decision.

And I will be completely honest. To this day, if someone were harrassing me, I would most definitely take it to my husband before I would take it to anyone. But I know my husband could not or would not commit murder, or anything of the sort. The question is, did Sandy know what was going to happen? Troy was not a murderer before this happened. I'm sure she had no idea. From previous posts from his friends it has been said that he was violent and in a lot of fights, Sandy probably thought he could handle Cotton with no problem. Maybe she wanted to scare Cotton into leaving her alone. Who knows? That's the point though, we don't know, we can only surmise from the facts that we have.

I'm curious if anyone knows how to get a transcript of the trial? I'm sure it is public record, but I wouldn't know where to begin. Any idea where the trial took place?

Maybe to an adult it would be desensitize but to a 15 year old girl that is going through it is a different story. Once you grow up and everything is full developed then breaking the chain is a choice you have but breaking cycles of any caliber at 15 is just not there for most teens. I personally believe that as a teen you truely believe nothing bad will happen no matter if it is a right or wrong choice.

I can say for sure that Sandy didn't know that of Troys plan. Troy has even said Sandy did not know of his plan. Weather or not Troy planned it I really do not know. I don't know Troy in the least bit way. I do know Sandy and I do know Sandy is an honest person that believe in loyalty and honest to the up most degree!

You are right on the fact that Sandy just wanted Cotton to leave her alone and thought Troy would scare him off.

As far as transcripts of the trial you will have to figure out that one with the help of someone other then me. Sorry I can't help you on that.

But if you don't mind emailing me you name I would like to ask Sandy's mom about you. It will determind how much help I can give you.

Crystal I don't understand why you would need to ask Sandy's mom about me. I don't know either of them, and they don't know me. I'm way down here in Alabama.

You wrote, "Ok, so I was wrong, maybe a few things did happen to Sandy before all this happened. I watched the documentary a few times, and like I said, I haven't thought of Sandy all that much, but now that you mention it I do remember Sandys mom talking about her witnessing death."

I would assume this means you know her mother!

No, I was talking about her mothers statements from the documentary.

Crystal - I don't think it is legal to put a child of 16 into an adult prison population.

The US Senate has rattified human rights treaties that require juveniles be segregated from the adult prison population in prison.

Did anyone notice the treatment of US prisoners in the intro scenes to Galdiator Days? Black men were made to crawl naked on the ground while a white guard steped on one of their backs; and dogs being allowed to bite a prisoner on the leg while he is crawling...

Isn't that worse than what was done to the Iraqi prisoners?

While women's prisons are probably not as bad a men's - they are surely no picnic, and you must have been pretty scared.

Grey I was a certfied adult. Once you are certfied by a judge you are consided an adult in all ways.

Ok, I talk to Sandy's mom and I did get a few details wrong.
Here they are:
Willy Water was in the DAs office at the time. He was best friends with the victim, Cotton. As well as his attorney and the person that IDed Cotton's body. Clearly his relationship and career posution is a conflict of interest. Willy Waters was dis-barred in 1999.

Debbie S:
You said when you were 15 you would never have done what Sandy did.

But that tmethod of comparrison CUTS BOTH WAYS.

As Sandy discerned, no one can really judge another because they don't walk in their shoes

At 15 Bill Gates was well on his way to making his fortune.

So to answer your own question - would it be fair to ask what happened, to you, that you didn't do what he did at 15 and turn out to have billions like him. Of course not, you are not him and not in his shoes.

Crystal,

Re: certified as an adult.

What you said is what most people think - that you were somehow were transformed into an adult for all purposes thereafter.

But I do not think so.
I think you are merely certified you to stand trial in the same court of jurisdiction as an adult would be tried in.

Just read the language of the relevant statute:
"...certify a child for proper criminal proceedings as an adult to any court that would have jurisdiction to try the offense if committed by an adult"....

http://www.leg.state.nv.us/nrs/NRS-062B.html#NRS062BSec390

Consider this:

Sandy, who was 15, had NO such certification, as the statue describes or as happened to you.

The only reason Sandy was tried in the criminal court was simply that the juvenile court had no statutory jurisdiction to handle a murder charge - leaving criminal court as the only court of jurisdiction for the charge.

As far as Watters goes, I believe he testified at the trial that he saw Kelly as much as 5 times a week.

What happened was that Watters transferred to the Public Defenders office and was working there during the last 4 of the 6 months that Sandy was locked up in county jail awaiting trial - all while being represented by the Pubic Defender's Office.

Grey, So there's no reason for anyone to believe that Sandy had been misrepresented, right?

Crystal: As far as Sandy goes, with my previous post, I was just asking the question. I'm in no place to judge anyone. This is all a learning experience and I am posting my opinion's and thought's. I grew up in a violent home, my dad was an alcoholic and a redneck (so he was gone for all the hunting season's), my mom was too busy working out, so she always looked good, to care about what happened to me or my brother. When I was 15 I ran away and all that crap. BUT I still knew right from wrong. And yes, maybe Sandy did only think that Kell would only scare Cotton? Maybe Kell thought that too? Maybe it was an impulsive act. Who know's? Who will ever know that truth? I understand but at the same time I don't understand how anyone can think that killing is EVER a good idea? Yes, we've all been in situations where we've wanted to "kill" someone, or beat their ass. But, I think the difference is how the mind is wired. That's why I asked did Kell and Sandy come from places that were totally disfunctional? I mean, was it ever really the better choice to just shoot the guy instead of beat him up? And Kell brought a gun. Does that say anyting to you? Premeditation says alot in a court of law (and outside a court of law). And sorry I missed it, how were you able to read the court file?

Also, if Sandy knew him before kindergarten do you guys think there were ever "warning signs"? Like did Kell kill animals, or do any really mean things that we have not heard about?

To quote you: ..:frontal lobe of the brain controls your logic and judgement is not fully developed untill you are about 21 or older". Okay, I totally agree with that. But, I also feel that kids who undergo stress and/or abuse daily and have responsibilities forced upon them too early are forced to grow up much faster than the normal juvenile.

Jenny: I have absolutely heard the term "break the cycle". I also know for a fact that a lot of victims know what NOT to do to another human being. Let me pose this question: Was Cotton violent before the meeting with Kell? What was his past? But I do agree that alot of offender's were abused themselves. Is that where the money and socioeconomics comes in?

Doesn't everyone still have to take responsibility for they're actions?

Back to Crystal: I know for a fact that all victim's don't become offenders (again). You said "Once you grow up and everything is full developed then breaking the chain is a choice you have but breaking cycles of any caliber at 15 is just not there for most teens". I truly believe that you still know right from wrong. That just because of Sandy's or Kell's past that's not an easy out (for lack of a better term). They can't use it as one.

That's all I have for right now.

Posted 3-18-2006 @1:53AM

Grey: As I said, I'm not judging anyone. That's not my place. I guess, as sure as I can sit here saying I wouldn't do what Sandy did, in her place at her age, I sure can't sit and say I wouldn't do what she did, in her place at her age. I would like to believe I wouldn't. But then again, I think that I never tried to have my dad scared or beat up or killed. Or anyone else that has hurt me for that matter. Have I thought I wish I could kill him or this person or that person, yes. But I've never acted on those thoughts and wouldn't dream of it.

This is where my questions are. What makes me different from Sandy, or Kell for that matter? What makes you different (assuming you've never killed anyone)? Have you?

I guess if we knew the answers then we would be able to solve alot of problems. I just have a very hard time wrapping my mind around the whole concept.

Jenny: " But in my opinion, if you witness something like that wouldn't it make you appreciate life more and not desensitize you?". That's what you said and that's what I agree with. Unless a person or child is continually witness to unthinkable acts, they don't become desensitized. And though I do agree, not always but a lot of the time, they know what not to do to another human being. But some become violent either towards themselves (cutting, & suicide) or others (abuse be it mental or physical).

How long has Sandy been in prison and when is she eligible for parole? If she is still in prison today that's rediculous. Justice is absolutely not fair for everyone. We arrested this jackass last night who is in his 60's. I ran a criminal past on him and almost fell out of my chair. In the state of Ohio, he started back in 1961 with armed robbery. Then graduated to Capitol Murder. Got a life sentence in 1981 and also had a charge of Escape. He escaped from Ohio fled to Miami go caught 10 days later and was extradited back to Ohio. And he is out on the streets. Three murder convictions (not just charges) and he is free. How does that happen?

Anyway, have a good day!!
Posted 3/18/07 @ 10:37am

My posts aren't uploading. So please excuse if this reply gets duplicated.

Debbie:

What makes you different from Sandy is that you don't have the EXACT same experiences, genetics, or brain physiology. I think it's that simple. Everyone is sufficiently different to behave differently.

Sandy was standing in a bedroom talking to a woman who was visiting her girlfriend's home when her friend's stepfather walked in a just shot the woman in the head.

She described the woman as falling limp at her feet "like a paper doll'. When the 2 girls came out from hiding in the bahroom, Sandy was the first to stumble into the body of her friend's mother with a bullet hole between her eyes. In fact all 4 people were shot in the head.

I can only imagine the psychological shift that might occur in a child's perception of reality upon unexpectedly experiencing something so shocking.

While a child's defense mechanisms might vary, depending on the individual, I'll bet they include behavior as Sandy developed.

Sandy's been incarcerated now for 20 years. How does she compare to other women?

Well she's been incarcerated longer than 90% all the women who have been involved in murders in NV. There are women who were on death row, and they got out on parole sooner.

And don't believe that being parolled requires some sort of clean behavior record becausei it doesn't. Some convicted murderers have had serious disiplinary write ups and they were not only parolled, but were parolled again after being sent back to prison for parole violations.

Here's a specific case of someone who served less time.
http://www.reviewjournal.com/lvrj_home/1997/Jul-12-Sat-1997/news/5701508.html

Grey: I grab that we are physically and mentally different in every way. I know that a life's past can modify any outcome that is forseen with the best of intentions. I get that. And if you read my post(s) you would see that my question is still why, but also, why Sandy and why not me? Or you? Or Jenny? Or the millions of other people (kids and adults) that suffer abuse daily? I just (as I said) wish that I could UNDERSTAND.

Why does one child give in to the drug life and another remain goody two shoes? When they are brothers and have grown up with the exact same lifestyles? It perplexes me and I am curious.

Also if you read my post you would know what I wrote about the man with all the previous murder convictions that is out on the streets now.

I assume that Sandy (obviously) was not at home when this murder occured. What were her (Sandy's) parents reactions? Did anyone offer her counseling? Or were her parents so desensitized that they didn't think anything of it? Exactly what kind of parents did she have? How old was she when this happened? Was it a murder or a murder suicide as previously written? And was there more than one witness to murder?

Do you think if we all wrote letter's to the Gov. that maybe that would make a difference? I mean to stop this b**lshit and get her realeased? Maybe someone should call HBO, they did that whole thing on the West Memphis Three.

And I still want answered if Kell had any previous "signs". If he killed animals or anything like that. Someone wrote something here about it but I can't find it.

Have a good night!! Posted 3/20/06 @ 12:45am

Debbie,

I think that brain psysiology and chemistry play a large role in causing differences in behavior. But I also think that subtle differences in each person's life are equally causal, and that even the sequence of events can make a difference in how someone processes things.

I've never heard anyone say that Troy ever acted aberantly as a child. Didn't Sandy's mom describe him as a good kid. And Sandy said he was always being restricted by his parents. I don't know at what age his behavior started having problems.

Sandy was born in a small town in Minnesota. Her father served in the 5th Battalion 7th Cavalry in Vietnam and was awarded combat medals that include a Purple Heart and a Bronze Star. He and her mom divorced when she was only 3 years old.

She moved to Las Vegas with her mom and younger brother when she was 7. Her mom worked as a cocktail waitress in one of the hotels.

The home where the suicide/murders occured was in a wealthy gated community.

Sandy was tried separately from the other 2 boys; and neither of them testified at her trial.

Even though the prosecutors argued felony murder, there was no underlying felony charge tack the charge to.

She was originally sentenced to 2 consecutive life sentences without parole. One 10 to life for murder and another 10 to life (enhancement) for use with a deadly weapon.

IMHO the weapon sentence is without jurisdiction because it is missing the requisite jury finding that she used the weapon. Instead of instructing the jury to determine if 'she' used a weapon, the jury was simply instructed to determine "if a dealy weapon was used in the crime".

An appeal (on some issues) resulted in a change of her sentences to include parole.

She was parolled on the murder charge after 12.5 years to beigin serving the weapon sentence. After serving 6 years on the weapons enhancement, she was selected for a Pardons hearing (in 12/04).

The Board of Pardons supposedly made her eligible for immediate parole. However, the Parole Board turned her down and said she could have another review in 3 years. That was 15 months ago.

The fact is that eligibility is calculated on a form (called GRM) that scores the severity of the crime, the inmates positive efforts; and their negative disciplinaries; to arive at a score that equates to a recommended range of sentence.

So even with the best record of behavior and positive achievements - Sandy's crime receives a recommended range of 12.5 to 15 years for each sentence.

Thereby the only way Sandy could have been made truely parole eligible is if her weapon sentence had been commuted to a lesser term that satified the GRM guidleline recommendations.

However, Sandy is still rated with the same consecutive sentences - as as if no commutation to an eligible term ever occurred.

If you really want to do some reading I found this link. It is from the Oklahoma State Courts Network. To me it looks like some type of manuscript from a court hearing involving Kell. I think someone from a previous post quoted (or copied) some of the statement's. It's well worth the read but it's long. And don't skip the information towards the bottom.

http://www.oscn.net/applications/oscn/DeliverDocument.asp?citeID=365174#N_1_

You'll probably have to copy and paste. Let me know what you think. Be back in a bit...... 3/21/06 @ 12:06am

Here is another site from Oklahoma State Courts Network. Long and interesting!!

http://www.oscn.net/applications/oscn/DeliverDocument.asp?citeID=364966

Another site I found with some more info on Sandy. How many freaking murders did she witness? God damn!!!

http://www.reviewjournal.com/lvrj_home/2004/Nov-22-Mon-2004/news/25308468.html

Not as long as the previous, but just as interesting.

Let me know what you think!!

Have a good night!
Posted 3/21/06 @ 1:23am

Debbie,

The court on Troy's appeals are interesting. I really know nothing of his casse or situation so I wouln't feel it fair to comment.

As to that juror's comments about Sandy being given a pardons gearing. To me it just shows how some people are... wanting to execute a child.

The U.S. Supreme Court has said:
 
“This Court has already endorsed the proposition that less culpability should attach to a crime committed by a juvenile than to a comparable crime committed by an adult, since inexperience, less education, and less intelligence make the teenager less able to evaluate the consequences of his or her conduct.”
 
“Given this lesser culpability, as well as the teenager’s capacity for growth and society’s fiduciary obligations to its children, the retributive purpose underlying the death penalty is simply inapplicable to the execution of a 15-year-old offender.”
 
“But youth is more than a chronological fact, it is a time and condition of life when a person may be most susceptible to influence and psychological damage.” [Emphasis added] Thompson v. Oklahoma, 487 U.S. 815 (1988) (USSC+)

Most everyone knows that trial information is highly filtered - so that jurors don't always see the whole picture.

But the Board of Pardons was privy to much that the jurors never saw; indeed that few even knew of in the last 20 years - such the the chief justice commented saying "she wasn't the actual shooter and I guess everyone agrees to that".

But here's some info in reply to that jurors comments.

In America, children tried as adults in criminal courts
are treated and sentenced more severely
than actual adults who commit the same crimes.

From [U.S. Bureau of Justice Statistics Special Report 9/98 data].

Compared to adults, children are:
2.0 times more likely to be held in jail pre-trial;
1.4 times more likely to be convicted;
1.7 times more likely to be sent to state prison;
and will be given sentences that are 31% longer.

Of the children that were convicted of murder:
..77% were sent to prison, [23% probation or other].
But 100% of the female children were sent to prison.

Regarding Sandy's wittnessing murders:

1) The first incidentt was at age 13 - when 4 people died. 3 were shot in the head and then the shooter shot himself in the head.

2) A year or so later a boy got out of a car and shot a girl in the back of the head. The girl luckily survived. Sandy said that when she picked up a rock with the girl's blood on it, her mind flashed back to the vision of finding her friends mother dead on the floor.

3) Her mom said that slso around that time their neighbor shot himself with a shotgun, and Sandy ran over to get the little children out of the house and brought the, to her house so that they wouldn't see their father in that state.

I believe there was yet another death that some of the girls at the prison witnessed when a elderly woman began choking on some food, and a guard ordered every one to stand down and to wait until medical staff arrived - at which time the woman had sufficated.

I believe it was around a time when one of the girls had become impregated by a male guard.

Sandy's been working in a program helping to train puppies that need homes. I think some cable TV show came to take pictures recently of this program.

Anyway, here's a link with some of her certificates relating to her positive efforts to rehabilitate.

serverscs.net/ggf/certificateslist.html

Grey: Not to be a bitch, but I looked at the link and no offense, you could have made all that up . It came from an unknown source and the spelling was atrocious. I've been trying to find more info on Sandy and how can I/you believe any of it? One story says that the show and tell murders occured in 1996 and another in 1986. Some say she witnessed three murders, some say two. You say she grew up in a well to do neighboorhood, others say she was constantly witness to evils and death. Also, the whole issue with her father? I read an article where it said he would abuse her often, and I believe you said that he left when she was three? It's all so confusing. There are always three sides to every story. Yours, mine and the truth. Again, I'm not being a bitch. I'm just very inquisitive and searching for the truth. And I fully believe that Sandy should be out of prison. She has absolutely done her time X10. Other documents show that she has only received her high school diploma and helped some other female that was incarcerated for six years. I don't know what to make of it all?

Again, if you are in the know, what did her mom do when all this happened. Was Sandy offered any type of counseling or did her mom just shrug it off and say to get over it?

What I got from the juror was that he felt that his time was wasted from ever being involved. He did say that he wasn't pissed that she could be up for parole, he said that it was a waste of his time. And I agree with him. To me, it obviously was not a personal attack on Sandy. After all the time they spent on this case, and probably getting paid crap, and trying to do the honest, responsible American and I care what goes on thing - I would be mad too. It was Kelly's brother that stood up and made such a fuss about her possibly being paroled.

The facts that you posted from the US Bureau of Justice Statistics are discouraging. I did take a look that their web site and couldn't find any statistics exactly like the one's you posted. I found some similar but none exactly. But it is an enormous web site and I really would have to do quite extensive research on it. I just don't have the energy right now.

What happened to everyone else?

Posted 3/22/06 @ 12:26am

Debbie,

Do you really think that someone would have the ability to make up all those certificates in color - with such precision - and then not be able to spell check the text of the linking web page code? That should tell you the certificates are real and the web page was just thrown togther so as to be able to link them.

The only certificate that is missing is one of her 3 college degrees. The college can only print diplomas at a certain time of year, and ordering one requires the STUDENT making a timely request. If you've ever tried to communicate from prison, or deal with the expense of it, you would know why getting a copy wasn't a priority for her.

I never said Sandy grew up in a well to do neighborhood. I said that the house where she went to stay overnight (where the suicide/murders occured) was in a well to do neigborhood.

3 murders or 4? I assume you are referring to the same incident. There was (1) The woman I described who was visiting and shot while taking to Sandy; (2) Her friend's mother; (3) A man in a car in the driveway (a woman in the back seat was overlooked); (4) Sandy's friend's stepfather who did the shooting.

Re: Dept of Justice report: The percentages and comparrisons were extrapolated from the reprt data and It may have even relied on a second report to small degree. I'm a bit busy now to look for a web link, but I'll pass it on if I find it.

Sandy did get some psychiatirc care, and some medication afterwards. But I'm not up on the full details of all that.

As far as the 3 sides to a story that you mention, yours mine and the truth - my only interest is in the truth because I could see that the truth had been manipulated.

Re her father: I said her parents divorced when she was 3, not that her father disappeaed from her life.

What articles say that her father abused her; and that she only received a HS diploma? I would like to see them.

As for the juror and the alternate, in that news story... it said they said: "they wanted Shaw executed, but state law prohibited the jury from sentencing a 15-year-old to death."

To me, they also seem to be angry that she was made parolable after they said no parole.

IMHO what they should be angry at is that they were told that no parole was even a legal option - because there are statutes that seem to oppose that option for a child. The weapon enhancement (by statute) is not a separate charge but an "additional penalty". Meanwhile there are statutes that say that the most that a child can be sentenced to is life.

Life without parole is a step up from simple life. Two life sentences without parole for the same charge is more yet. So you might wonder why she still has 2 lifes (with parole). Well so do I.

We're still here. All I can say is WOW.

I'm here too, been paying attention all along, just have alot going on right now.

PS:

"NRS 176.025: Death sentence not to be imposed on person under age of 16 years convicted of crime. A death sentence shall not be imposed or inflicted upon any person convicted of a crime now punishable by death who at the time of the commission of such crime was under the age of 16 years. As to such person, the maximum PUNISHMENT that may be imposed shall be life imprisonment."

By saying that the maximum PUNISHMENT for a child under 16 is life, NRS176.025 appears to eliminate 2 of the 3 options (i.e. death and life without parole) that NRS 176.025 would otherwise allow. So that it seems, at worse, a child of 15 should only be given one life sentence for a single charge.

NRS193.163 (for use of deadly weapon) states that "This section does not create a separate offense but provides an additional PENALTY for the primary offense.

IMHO, "Penalty" = "punishment"

That's why I say a child should not have more that one life sentence as punishment or penalty for a singlar charge.

Glald you guys are still here. I'll post what I can quickly find.

Grey:

Here's the link first: http://www.reviewjournal.com/lvrj_home/2004/Nov-22-Mon-2004/news/25308468.html

The juror quote was this (though it sounds like you already read it) 'Grandlund and alternate juror Donald Ireland said they wanted Shaw executed, but state law prohibited the jury from sentencing a 15-year-old to death. I don't think the fact she is getting out sucks. What sucks is that people have to go through the ordeal of coming up with that sentence, and then it doesn't mean anything," Grandlund said. "If they don't want to go by what the jury says, let the Legislature come down and do their own sentencing." '

I agree with him. I did not get a personal attack on Sandy out of his statements. I would feel the same way. It sounds like they did the best they could at the time with the information that was presented to them. And like I said, they spent time thinking about it, getting paid crap and all that, to have the decision thrown out is almost an insult. Sort of like, if you don't want my opinion don't ask! And don't force me to come here and be subjected to this.

Who's to say whether they made the right or wrong choice? We were not there and we can't say based on that fact alone. If Cotton was your family member, maybe you would feel differently?

The link first: http://www.klas-tv.com/Global/story.asp?S=1614988

Here's a quote about her past: 'Shaw violated prison rules, but she looked after a 16-year-old inmate who was in prison for six years. Also, evidence of Shaw's troubled childhood that might have influenced the jury's sentence never was presented during her trial, Terry said.' It has to be referring to the two, three or however murders she witnessed. I thought I read somewhere that she had been abused my her father. My mistake and apology!!

From the same site:

Sandy said herself: '"When I was 13 I was spending the night at my best friends house. Her step-father went into a jealous rage and shot and killed everybody in the home but me and my friend. When I was 14, I was at school and I was waiting for my mother to pick me up and I witnessed my classmate get shot," said Sandy Shaw, convicted murderer.'

So that's two incidents. Cotton makes three. Did she actually witness his murder or just hear about it and then went to see for herself? Also, at her best friends house did she actually witness the murders themselves or did she hide in the bathtub (like was stated) with her friend then saw the aftermath? Not that it makes any real difference, I'm just curious.

This quote supports the claim that she did get more recognitions than I saw originally: 'While in prison, Sandy Shaw has earned her G.E.D. and received three college degrees. She's also taken classes in self-help, anger management and victim empathy. Members of the pardons board will take that into account on Friday morning when they consider her appeal. Shaw also says she wants to be out so she can help support her mother and sister who are both very ill.'

Do I think that someone could and would go through the trouble to and have the ability to fake such documents. Absolutely! Does it appear that that is the case - no.

The whole yours, mine and the truth. Well, that's based on perception. You and I can see/hear/feel the same scenario and come up with absolutely different outcomes. Everything is based on perception. Like someone stated previously, we are all different. Physically to say the very least. No two people in the whole world have grown up with the exact same circumstances. Ever. A person's whole life experiences come into play when they have to make decisions. You will choose one option and I will choose something totally different. It's human nature. I guess that's why I can't say that I would not have done exactly what Sandy did in her shoes at that time. And I can't say that I would have. I wasn't there. And Kell, Sandy and the other guy, I am sure as hell that there were variations in their stories as to what happened the day Cotton was murdered.

What is IMHO please - I have no idea?

So what about my question: If we all write letter's or emails to the Gov. or whoever, does anyone think it will make a bit of difference?

And where are Kell and Sandy both housed right now? Different articles say that they have both been transferred a time or two. Maybe we could bombard the parole board with emails (even this site), what do you think?

Done for now!!
Posted 3/23/06 @ 2:42am

Did I miss anything Grey? Let me know......

IMHO...in my honest opinion.

I know I have heard reports stating that sandy witnessed one of the shootings in the home and then ran to the bathtub. I'm not sure that if we did all write to the parole board that it would make a difference. We don't know Sandy, we don't know Cotton. I mean yeah, it would be nice to be able to help, to have our voices heard...but i just don't think it would help.

Yah, I agree Jen but would it hurt? I mean, we are the citizens of this country and I'd like to know why they're protecting her from us. They're elected by us.

Just so I'm straight here, the first incident was when Sandy was spending the night at a friend’s house. And from what I've read four people were murdered, three victims then the shooter committed suicide? I'm sure she heard the killings, but if she was in the bathtub she wasn't witness to the actual murders? But we don't know for sure. So she may have heard them and then saw that aftermath. LIKE I SAID, not that it's any better, I just want to know/understand.

The second incident was when she was waiting for her mom to pick her up from school, she saw a boy shoot a girl. Do we know how close in proximity she was? Was it like the boy walked up to this girl casually and shot her in the stomach or did he come out with an AK-47 and open fire and shred her to pieces?

To some, the questions I ask may be insignificant. But to me they open totally new perceptions and understanding.

Best and worst case scenarios in both cases. Let's say the shooter in the first incident used silenced handguns. There was probably a verbal confrontation going on that was not nice to say the least. At that young age, Sandy may have fled to the only room that was not occupied, with her friend. Happened to be the bathroom. How big was the house? If it was in a well to do neighborhood, it may have had four bedrooms, two bathrooms and two floors. Again, best case scenario. The shots were muffled; all of the sudden the screaming stopped and all is silent. After a time, Sandy and her friend, emerge from the bathroom, maybe on the second floor. They walk downstairs to see a lifeless body or two then in a panic (I would imagine) run (for their lives) out the door and go for help?

Worst case scenario is let's say, the house is three bedrooms, one bathroom, single floor and a shotgun was used. The girls are taking cover in the bathroom. Again, loud blasts that shake the walls. Then all is silent. After a while, they come out. See a total massacre. Worst case scenario. I imagine that they will not, at that age, go around touching the victims to see if they are still alive. I hope they do not try to perform c.p.r. I imagine that in a total state of panic and shock they run from the house as fast as they can and go for help.

The second incident could go either way. Witnessing a murder is a blanket statement. There are so many scenarios’ that could have come into play. Maybe the boy accidentally ran the girl over with his car? It could be anything.

My point is 1: Either Sandy is getting royally screwed (which is what I believe). And she should sue the state for, I don't know, discrimination or something. Or 2: We don't know ALL the details. And the details make ALL the difference in the world.

And I know I will hear hell for this post!!

As far as writing letters, I have some names, I don't know if they are still active or hold the posted chairs. BUT, a letter or two (hundred hopefully) is not going to hurt. Here are some names: 'Voting for clemency were board Chairman Gov. Kenny Guinn and state Supreme Court Justices Deborah Agosti, Miriam Shearing, Bob Rose and William Maupin. Opposed were Justices Nancy Becker and Mark Gibbons and Attorney General Brian Sandoval.

Who is representing Sandy? Is it the State Attorney's office? If they are the one's prosecuting her how can they be the one's defending her? Or does she have a public defender? Or a private attorney? If she has a private attorney who is paying for the services?

I found a site for the Nevada State Pardons Board. Here is the link: http://pardons.state.nv.us/

Obviously not now, but I will be sending emails to whoever I can find to listen to let Sandy out.

Also I found this information:

Nevada Supreme Court
201 South Carson Street
Carson City NV 89701-4702
Map | Directions

(775) 684-1600 or (702) 486-9300
nvscclerk@nvcourts.nv.gov

Hours: 8:00AM - 5:00PM
Monday - Friday
Administrative Office of the Courts
201 South Carson Street
Carson City NV 89701-4702
Map | Directions

(775) 684-1700
aoc@nvcourts.nv.gov

Hours: 8:00AM - 5:00PM
Monday - Friday
Nevada Supreme Court Library
201 South Carson Street
Carson City NV 89701-4702
Map | Directions

(775) 684-1640
klharrin@nvcourts.nv.gov

Hours: 8:00AM - 5:00PM
Monday - Friday

I think this is my longest post ever. Sorry. If not, it sure feels's like it.

Hope this info helps or inspires someone!!

Posted 3/24/06 @ 2:09am

Debbie,

That is very nice of you to offer that help. Sorry I wrote a reply to some of your questions, but acidently closed the window.

Here is a page of contact numbers that should cover all the bases.
http://serverscs.net/ggf/tohelp.html

Please know that Chief Justice Rose, Justice Maupin and Governor Guinn were most supportive at Sandy's last pardons hearing, along with 'former' Chief Jutice Shearing and Justice Augusti.

When you consider all the people whose lives this story has touched - it becomes almost impossible to relate everything.

Some stories are little known, such as these:
One corrections worker in a juvenile facility wrote Sandy saying how much watching the documentary affected the children there - and mentioned how "even the boys were crying" and how everyone related to Sandy - and how touched they were when she wrote them. And how it realy seemed to turn one young girls around.

Here are 3 short letters from a young students whose government class visited the prison years ago.
http://serverscs.net/ggf/let1.jpg
http://serverscs.net/ggf/let2.jpg
http://serverscs.net/ggf/let3.jpg

Crystal, are they referring to you to?

Grey, believe it or not I too had a previous post ready to go and my computer locked up. But PLEASE post again, I really enjoy this. It's so interesting and I've learned so much!! And I've even changed some of my opinions!!

Where are Sandy and Kell currently incarcerated? They are not on the list you posted.

And do you think it would make a difference if we wrote letter's or emails?

Those letter's are very cool from the kids. I hope Sandy did make a difference in they're lives.

I knew when I posted the info who was for and against Sandy's clemency. Are these the one's I need to contact: Justices Nancy Becker and Mark Gibbons and Attorney General Brian Sandoval?

How do you know so much about this case?

Looking forward to your reply!!
Posted 3/25/06 @ 11:36pm

How's this for a letter? I haven't sent it yet as I am awaiting constructive critism from you guys - let me know what you think? I will email it when I can and then send it USPS.

To whom it may concern:

I would simply like to express my opinions in regards to the Sandy Shaw case.

Having read all of the information and facts that are readily available on the Internet and with the help of the documentary on HBO, I feel that Sandy Shaw has more than paid her dues to society. She appears to have been treated psychologically while incarcerated and has proven that she will be a valuable member to society if released.

I don’t know the source of this information, but it is very impressive. First I will post the website where it came from: http://serverscs.net/ggf/certificateslist.html

Second I will copy and paste the contents for viewing for those that are time restrained:

These are all the certificates of scholastic achievement and appreciation that Sandy has been given. The list also include letters of appreciation for some good works and Department of Corrections assessments describing her growth and rehabilitation as "remarkable" given the prison environment that she had to grow up in as a child.
These accomplishments would earn most prisoners many years off their sentences. But because her sentences are life terms, they earn her no credit.
1. Letter of Appreciation from the Cancer Society for helping to raise money.
2. Certificate of Appreciation from the Cancer Society.
3. A news release describing how 17 inmates and prison workers (of which she was one) participated in the donations of 10 inches or more of hair to 'Locks of Love' a non-profit that helps children suffering from Alopecia.
4. Certificate of appreciation for working to facilitate a computer course to other inmates.
5. Letter of appreciation from Reno Correctional for participating in Scared Straight Tours.
6. Letter of appreciation from Juvenile Probabtion for participating in Scared Straight Tours (Page 1).
7. Letter of appreciation from Juvenile Probabtion for participating in Scared Straight Tours (Page 2).
8. Certficate of appreciation for leadership in 'Las Vegas Youth' 2005
9. Certficate of appreciation for participatiion in 'Project Safe Neighborhood' 2005
10. High School Diploma.
11. Letter of congratulations from Governor for earning a college degree.
12. College degree diploma. (Associate of Arts)
13. College degree diploma. (General Studies)
14. College degree diploma. (Business Degree)
15. Certificate of completion for course in Database use.
16. Certificate of completion for course in Computer Application use.
17. List of courses in Computer Application use.
18. Certificate of completion for course in Word Processing.
19. Certificate of completion for course in Vocational Computer use.
20. Certificate of completion for course in Spreadsheets.
21. Certificate of completion for course MS Power Point.
22. Certificate of completion for course Microsoft Word 200.
23. Certificate of completion for advanced course Microsoft Access.
24. Certificate of completion for course Advanced Computer Applications.
25. List of courses under Advanced Computer Applications.
26. Certificate of Appreciation from prison for hard work and excellence in Volunteer Work.
27. Psychology report describing her scholastic accomplishments as "considerable", her record as "good", that she have been "working openly and honestly", has "mastered control of her behavior" and have "accepted responsibility for her crime".
28. Certificate of completion in program on Alchohol and Substance Abuse.
29. Certificate of completion in program on Self Awareness.
30. Psychology report describing her achievments as "remarkable" given the adverse environment of prison and having been put there as the youngest female in the adult prisons.
31. Certificate of completion in program on Anger Management (1994).
32. Certificate of completion in program on Anger Management (1996).
33. Certificate of completion in program on Victims Empathy.
34. Certificate of completion in program for Street Readiness

I have no way to verify that this information is correct, but I will say that if half of it is true then that says a lot. Also, I realize that the spelling is atrocious.

I work in Law Enforcement. I’m not an Officer but a Dispatcher. The other night we had a fight in progress, our Trooper’s got on scene and did what they had to do. I got the suspect’s name and date of birth. For Officer Safety reason’s I ran a criminal history on the suspect. I could have literally fallen out of my chair when I saw that he had been convicted of three murders. And he was out on the street. The state where the offense’s occurred was Ohio. And I guess that he was released after serving 25 years. His last conviction was in 1981. Ohio’s Life Sentence is (obviously) 25 years. And he killed three people. Also, he had an escape charge. He broke out of prison and fled to Miami, where he was picked up ten days later and extradited back to Ohio. My point is that this criminal is out on the street and Sandy Shaw is not.

I am involved in an Internet posting site (http://www.drizzten.com/blargchives/000386.html) that originally was about Troy Kell. Recently the topic of conversation has been Sandy Shaw. I don’t know her, have never met her and don’t feel compelled to do so. I just feel that she has more than paid her dues. So, if you will, please, give her a chance. It’s not even a second chance. Give her a chance! She has been incarcerated since she was 15 years old.

Also, ask yourself the question: If it were your family member, a niece or nephew, how would you feel then? And with Sandy’s traumatic past, hasn’t she gone through enough?

I appreciate your time.

Thank you very much,

Debbie (I put my name, address and telephone number here)

Have a good night/day!!

Posted 3/26/06 @ 12:21am

Debbie,

I wouldn't bother to send any internet links - for several reasons.

1) Parole/ & Probabtion and the Board of Pardons already have all those certificates and MORE

2) The link provided is just temporary.

Also,
3) I doubt the officials in NV have any interest in Troy's case being he is in Utah and has a pending death sentence from there .

BUT - sending a just short general letter to the Parole Board might be worth while.

'This' part of what you wrote should more than suffice.

Having read all of the information and facts that are readily available on the Internet and with the help of the documentary on HBO, I feel that Sandy Shaw has more than paid her dues to society. She appears to have been treated psychologically while incarcerated and has proven that she will be a valuable member to society if released.

I work in Law Enforcement. I’m not an Officer but a Dispatcher. The other night we had a fight in progress, our Trooper’s got on scene and did what they had to do. I got the suspect’s name and date of birth. For Officer Safety reason’s I ran a criminal history on the suspect. I could have literally fallen out of my chair when I saw that he had been convicted of three murders. And he was out on the street. The state where the offense’s occurred was Ohio. And I guess that he was released after serving 25 years. His last conviction was in 1981. Ohio’s Life Sentence is (obviously) 25 years. And he killed three people. Also, he had an escape charge. He broke out of prison and fled to Miami, where he was picked up ten days later and extradited back to Ohio. My point is that this criminal is out on the street and Sandy Shaw is not.

I don’t know her, have never met her and don’t feel compelled to do so. I just feel that she has more than paid her dues. So, if you will, please, give her a chance. It’s not even a second chance. Give her a chance! She has been incarcerated since she was 15 years old.

I think just the parole board is fine, unless you feel ambitious.

Justices Becker andGibbons and Attorney General Brian Sandoval did not vote in favor Sandy at her last pardons hearing. Former Justices Shearing and Adusti did, along with Chief Justice Rose, Maupin and Governor Guinn.

There are some other Justices who were not at that hearing; and although it is unlikely Sandy will ever have another Pardons heearing there is an issue that I hope will taken up for review.

Grey: Thanks for the reply. So, how do you know all this?

No more time right now!!

Posted 3/27/06 @ 12:40pm

Debbie, Tiki, Jenny, Grey, Crystal,

Being you all do not know me personally, nor I you, or for that matter, others on the board, you/we just have to make a decision whether to believe or not believe what everyone is saying here. '

With that said, I am only coming on here to help re-enforce some of the positive things that have been said on Sandy's behalf.

Understandably I can see the uncertainties one might have towards other’s statements about Sandy’s positive side, and I too would be hesitant not knowing who anyone is or where the facts are coming from. So the more questions asked the better it is to reassure one’s beliefs.

But first, the issue of sending letters on Sandy's behalf to the addresses kindly posted by Grey: I am suggesting these things to you *not to come off as it is my way or the highway, but only because the years of experience I have had in researching (via letters and phone calls) what type of letters sent will make the most impact…

As for sending links or copied and pasted facts in your support letters, it is best to stick to words from your heart…As mentioned in an above post, it is true, over the past years, the supporters of Sandy have sent the Pardons and Parole Board members numerous packages containing all the above facts (plus many-many more) about her case and story.

One way to help make sure your letters are taken to heart and sound sincere is to take the time to get to know Sandy by what different things are said about her so you can get a full grasp of who she really is today. Get to know how her relentless hard work ethics over the past 20 years have allowed her to succeed in fully rehabilitated herself to the point where her education and 3 degree college resume has put her in the top 85% of educated inmates in this country. This way your words and views will be written more from the heart instead of just common knowledge gained by reading articles…

For what its worth, your letters of support should be very positive and sincere about *your support for her*, and not carry words that present uncertainties, and doubts about her because of you not knowing who it is your supporting.

So with that said, to get the most punch out of your support letters and for more positive results, it is truly best to keep your letters short, sweet and to the point. The more positive views and thoughts they read in the shorter period of time is by far better than allowing them to get lost in translation before ever reaching your views.

Hope some of this helps you find the right words for your support letters.. Every positive letter written will help in some way, shape for form in which she will always be greatly appreciative towards your efforts…

Consider it done.

Also, consider it done. I will keep it short and sweet.

But, I still want the question answered: How do you guys know this and where are Sandy and Kell currently incarcerated?

I will NEVER send any letter to anyone requesting that Kell be released. He is a habitual offender and will be so until he dies. Sad as it is, I believe it to be the truth. Sandy on the other hand, I believe her to be re-habilitated. If there is such a word. She has proven to her convictors that she is NOW a better person. That she HAS learned from her experience and would not make the same mistake again. Kell on the other hand is a ruthless, guiltless monster. Those of you are now beside yourselves, I ask you this question again: Would you want Kell moving in next to you, or your 15 year old daughter/son? I know I wouldn't. The man I previously spoke about, with three murders under his belt, how, in any state is he allowed to be released? And Sandy is not? As far as I'm concerned Kell should be publically executed, by hanging or some other uncomfortable manner like that.

Jenny: I'm sorry, but I still believe in the Death Penalty. I agree that the money spent on Capital Murder trials is not worth it. What happened to Aileen Wuornos? She was sentenced to death and she was supposedly a victim? And she was put to death very quickly. Did anyone see that documentary? Or what about the West Memphis Three? They all show that there is no uniformity with the laws in the United States. I see it all the time at work. No insult intended, but a white person can do a. A black person can do a. repeatedly and get away with it, while white person is written up and (for lack of a better term) scolded in the highest degree. The state of Flori-duh is so very afraid of lawsuit's involving racism that you can literally be of an ethnic race and do whatever the hell you want to do.

It's the truth.

Posted 3/28/06 @ 1:49am

The simple truth is that these two anaimals killed Cotton when he was only 21 yrs. They took his life. I miss him, he was my best friend, Shaw should rot in prison and Kell should be killed because that is what socity has ruled a fair punishment. Kill Kell.

Sorry about my last post I was pissed off. But, I still feel the same. The whole racism thing, I see it all the time at work. And it really sucks.

Kell probably feels like the smartest man in the world, like he duped us all. He (from what I've seen) show's absolutely no remorse for his crimes. Sandy on the other hand does.

Tex, if Cotton was your best friend then what was he in prison for? I'm just curious. Sorry for your loss.

Posted 3/28/06 @ 10:10am

Yoe Tex;
Just what I needed, some fuel for the fire…. First of all there TEX, get your facts straight before you go slamming and condemning anyone…Sandy Shaw did not kill anyone, nor did she want anyone killed, nor did she even know of a gun, or Kell’s intentions of killing anyone that night. It’s been proven and stated under oath by both Co-defendants over and over again that she is innocent of ever handling or knowing of a gun period…

You want to argue that fact, go for it bro.. Take it up with the Nevada Supreme Court Justices who at her 2004 Nov 15th Pardons Board hearing, *Supreme Court Justice Shearing and Governor Guinn both stated “It has been established that Sandy Shaw WAS NOT THE SHOOTER” which in turn all 8 Supreme court Justices agreed to that fact…That is a quote Bud…

Billy Merritt had as much to do the actual shooting of Kelly as Shaw did, which was none, and he was sentenced to 10 years and saw his freedom after only serving * 4 * years… The man who shot your so called “Best friend” is on Death Row, so you got your justice…

TEX:
As for you being Cottons best friend; Hey what-ever bud~ I feel for you losing a friend, no one deserves to die the way he did. But when you live a life full of law breaking antics, and CHILD MOLESTING gestures, the odds are against you on living a full and happy life…

Being his “BEST FRIEND” then you must of known how much of a drug infested, child molesting creep he really was… Ummmmm? You must have known Willie Waters too aye~? I mean being he was also Cottons best friend. If so! Then you *were* (((( I say WERE intentionally not knowing who you are today)))) NO better than either of them law breaking scum bags back then… You’re obviously still breathing, so you may have seen the light somewhere along the way ….

As far as I am concerned, All *** 4 *** victims involved: Kelly, Kell, Shaw, and Merritt all made some horribly bad decisions that night to agree to be in that predicament PERIOD…

Especially a 22 year old GROWN ADULT MAN who was trying to unzip a ** 15 * years young Teenage Girl pants…What up with that Best Friend?

You got ir right the first time Debbie, the operative word is IF IF IF.

Tex,

If you were 'really' Cotton's best friend then please enlighten the rest of us as to what his best friend was doing taking out a 15 year old girl in his car at night without her parents knowledge. Surely Cotton must have mentioned her because he met her almost 10 months earlier when Sandy had only just turned 15.

The fact remains that all the horrible things we are talking about (incuding Cotton's death) would never have happened if not for Cotton involving himself with a tramatized 15 year old CHILD.

But if you were Cotton's best friend then, have yet another question - Why did Cotton's father change his first, middle and last names from Thomas Alfred Thiede to Justin Ross Kelly?

Debbie.

I don't know how to answer your question about how anyone knows certain things except to say that a lot of people know things because they either know the people or families involved, or have worked on or investigated elements of the case etc.

I have seen a number of people claim (on the Net) to know the people involved - only to get people's names mixed up or not know something they should know, if they are really who they say. So keep that in mind.

DEBBIE (o:

To answer your question about who knows what, I can only speak for myself ~K~ As for me, I will leave my knowledge of Sandy and her case and story as just being an "Unknown someone" who really cares about the rights and wrongs of justice” and seeks to make a major wrong into a well deserved right…. All has to do with the will power to research and finding the truth of the matter.

Bottom line is this: Sandy is innocent of shooting and killing Kelly or even knowing it was going to happen, and that is a proven fact. All I am doing is trying to bring *fair* justice to a girl who was railroaded into a life of growing up behind bars because of the unethical buddy – buddy system of the D.A, Willie Waters and the Prosecuting Attorney, the appalling Dan Seaton and all there misused authority and court room tactics.

Jenny, are you still there? We're going to write, how about you?

[TYPO] Correction:

When I wrote to Tex saying:
'please enlighten the rest of us as to what [his] best friend was doing taking out a 15 year old girl

The word [his] should be 'your'.

That is... unless he is the person that Sandy said was with Cotton when he met her and her friend and took them for a ride across state lines that night and didn't get them back untill early in the morning causing Sandy to get grounded - in which case both words would apply.

The really sad part is that this happens every single day. In cities all over the world. If you really stop and think about how corrupt our Penal System is, it will make you sick. It is totally overwhelming. I feel like sending my one little letter is so insignificant.

Tex, all I have to say is "Yeah, what they said!!!"

Grey and the last Unknown: I know it doesn't really matter how anyone know's anything. And who's to say that any of it is the truth? I THINK I can tell the difference? It's just my curiosity. I just want to know if you guys had/have some personal tie's to this case? But, I absolutely respect both of you for not wanting to say.

So please, anyone, what about Aileen Wournos and the West Memphis Three?

With Aileen, I'm not sure what to think.

With the WM3, it's hard to say also. But it seems to me that they too were railroaded. If you guys want some good watching, rent both of the DVD's on it and it should blow your mind.

Posted 3/29/06 @ 2:04am :(

If anyone is interested, I forgot to say, the name of the DVD's are Paradise Lost 1 & 2.

Debbie,

I often find it difficult to watch shows about cases with elements of injustice because, as you noted, the level of injustice in our society is overwelming.

I've watched a few of the "In Justice" shows which (to my understanding) are not based on any particular incident but merely on the general themes experienced in the courts. But it is just overwhelming to know that the injustice is real.

I think people forget how easily the mind can be affected from the outside.

There was an experiment publcized in the 50's or 60's where scientists conditioned a planeria worm by shining a light on it and then then giving it an electrical shock. Eventually the worm learned to associate and anticipate the light as being followed by a electric shock - so that the worm would 'cringe' just by shinning a light on it.

Then the scentists cut to worm up and fed it to an unconditioned worm and - low and behold - the unconditioned worm cringed when the light was shined on it.

Grey: That is very interesting in a sick way. The things we are capable of.....

I agree (again) that if we all, really, paid attention to what was REALLY going on around us, there would be many more suicides and people just giving up. It is very disheartening. It seem's like all hope is lost. Like it's a huge downward spiral.

But, at the same time, knowledge is power, right?

Or is it? I sometimes wish that I was one of these non-coherent people that goes through life in their little bubble, protected and oblivious. It sure would be a lot less painful.

Am I the only idiot that keeps asking questions that don't get answered? The answer: YES!

C'mon you guys!! Anyone, Aileen Wournos, the WM3? That's good shit too. Jen, Tiki, Drizz. Hello, you guys, can you hear me???

Grey: As far as the injustice is concerned on t.v.: I mostly only watch the true crime stuff. No Law and Order or 24. That's all crap to me. I have no use for fiction. The truth however, I love it. Dr. G Medical Examiner, Cops, Texas SWAT all of it. Just try to tear me away from the t.v. set, it can't be done. But, I also know that it's not really the truth. They don't/won't show the detective getting called at 4:00am for a homicide that is cussing and yelling because he was finally getting to sleep at a decent hour. They don't show Dr. G saying "Oh Jesus, with this guys liver he should have been dead a long time ago". As far as the truth goes, I wouldn't skip it for a second. Afterall, the truth can't hurt me anymore than my own mind already has. And, that is where the knowledge is power thing comes in. Is it really power? Once you know horrific things you can't un-know them, or forget. No matter who you are.

Posted 3/30/06 @ 1:48am

Hey Deb,

I've got some pretty strong feelings about the WM3. My friends and I have bought some of there shirts and have gone to one benefit concert. They are innocent as hell. If anyone feels differently here, that's fine, they are entitled but I refuse to argue or explain. The whole story is clear as a bell. All you have to do is whach the documentaries.

What is it you want to know, Debbie? I generally don't follow the myriad injustices that revolve around the "justice" system of this country. My father is a deputy sheriff in a partially rural area and one of my best friends works at a jail not far from my house, so I hear plenty. I'm also an anarchist, so I have a rather, uh, unique perspective on a lot of this that flies in the face of reformist policies.

A blog with a considerable focus on law enforcement/legal system problems is The Agitator by Radley Balko: http://www.theagitator.com/ Check him out if you have not.

Thanks guys!! I just want to make sure that you guys know that this sort of crap happens every single day. Personally I totally understand that. But there are not too many cases that get me like this one and the WM3. If any of you haven't seen the DVD's I suggest renting them. They are very good watching.

Tiki: I totally agree with you - those boys (the WM3) are so innocent! It's another case of total injustice.

Drizz: I've heard the song Anarchy in the UK :) and all the rumors about it, but what exactly is Anarchy? No government? Like in the 1800's kind of Wild West stuff? I will also check out the site and see what it's all about. Also, if you don't want to answer on here just send me an email. Again, no judgement, just my curiousity!!

Also, I will be sending off my letters for Sandy probably tomorrow. And I will also send one to Sandy. Does she know about/read this post?

Posted 3/30/06 @ 11:22am

Debbie

Cool, and thanks for the support letter. As for the Blog, I am sure she hears about the comments when and if needed...

As for the WM3, I have researched some articles about it, and I also caught a TV program a good year of so ago, not to sure if it was 20/20 or 60 minutes etc.. but from what I have read and saw.. I have to say that I totally agree these three have been railroaded...

Unknown: Don't prisoner's get access to computer's? And what are the boundaries? Is Sandy allowed to view this site? Or is it limited to classes she is taking and say, reference materials only? With her good time, she should have full access to anything.

Please, rent both DVD's on the WM3, it will change your life. But you have to watch the DVD's. That really shows the truth. It's embarrassing. Sandy should call HBO back. Maybe that would make a difference?

I was too busy tonight at work to make the copies of the letters to send out to everyone. Hopefully tomorrow I will have 5 minutes to make the copies.....

I'm not giving up.

Posed 3/31/06 @ 1:56am

Debbie, I believe all aggression (the initiation of physical force) to be immoral. Governments cannot exist without committing aggression (taxes, social and economic regulations, military intervention, etc.), so I believe governments are part of the problem society faces. That's why I'm an anarchist. Here are some practical explanations I've written responding to objections against a stateless free market society:

http://www.drizzten.com/blargchives/001041.html
http://www.drizzten.com/blargchives/001144.html
http://www.drizzten.com/blargchives/001369.html

With regard to problems within the legal system and law enforcement, consider this analogy. We are aware of the dangers monopolies pose. One entity controlling a market tends to result in poor service, high prices, and low quality because competition doesn't exist to provide alternatives and innovation. The same concerns people have against, for example, Microsoft and giant telecommunications companies, apply just as much to government legal systems. Our options are thus:

In the event of a "civil" matter (broken contracts, petty theft, divorce, etc.), we can 1)privately work it out amongst the interested parties...2)hire an arbitration service to act as a professional mediator...3)physically fight it out...4)leave the problem unaddressed...4)or use the state to stand as judge.

In the event of a "criminal" matter, however, we have minimal say in what happens. Sometimes we have the option of pressing charges, sometimes we have the option of dropping our case in court. However, for serious offenses such as murder, rape, or kidnapping, the action is totally in the state's lap. It claims a monopoly on the use of retaliatory force against an aggressor. That's why it is illegal to become a vigilante - the state not only claims a monopoly on the use of retaliatory force, it also attempts to enforce that claim.

An expanded version of this concept as well as a semi-scholarly defense of free market anarchism can be found here: http://www.lewrockwell.com/long/long11.html

How does this apply to the cases under discussion here? Aggression would remain an offense under this theoretical society, applicable to EVERYONE...including those who attempt to enforce the prohibition. If it can be proven that someone is not an aggressor and someone used force against them to "bring them in," that enforcer becomes a criminal and subject to justice. This introduces a powerful incentive element into the stateless justice system, because now the "police" wouldn't enjoy the immunities from prosecution they currently have. We see innocents freed from jail and yet those responsible for physically arresting them are almost always left alone. This idea is expanded here: http://www.mises.org/rothbard/ethics/twelve.asp

Of course, while I believe these theories are sound and logical, I'm not crazy enough to think they'll be implemented in the near future. It would be disingenuous to even call them "reforms" because they are certainly not that. They are fundamental changes to the bedrock of modern society. So while I advocate what I do, I also realize they have little impact on most debates regarding current cases.

Hope this helps!

Debbie

I am sure Crystal would know more about what is and is not allowed being she said she was inside the walls for 6 years.

As far as I know, she has no access to the internet, but does have access to computers with the basic formats of course, for instance WORD etc...

The sad thing is, over the years, she has taught computer classes to many inmates with the hopes that it will help develop their skill levels, but once the classes are done, so is the time awarded with the computers... No time to pratice there skills afterwords... Makes no sence to me...

Why did Shaw want Cotton killed? Or beat up as she cliams? This fabrcation on how he molested a little girl, well what was she doing in a casino at the time he met her? He thought she was of age, and when he found out he didn't want anything to do with her. She begged him for a ride to find a lost purse or something and thats when the slut had him gunned down. Are we judged by our parents? Are parents judged by there children?

So you say to somebody "I want this guy beat up" How does it start and end in a murder? No struggle. Her "freind" just walks up behind Cotton and shoots him in the head. No chance!! Why wouldn't you go to the police? Instead of taking people out to "see what will happen if you mess with me". Hense the name "the show and tell murder". Why was Cotton again shot a few days later by Shaw? If she had no idea of the out come? Only when one of the people who viewed the body came forward were they caught. Since we are talking facts of this of this case?

TEX;

TEX:

You are not serious here are you there Best Friend? You’re going to use “He had thought she was of age” as his excuse? Come on there bud? She had “just turned” 15, which means she was just fresh out of being a 14 year old teen, and trust me when I say she looked every bit of a 14 years young gal turning 15. Sorry Pal… that is a piss poor explanation…

He new exactly how old she was there best friend. That was determined prior to that unfortunate night when Cotton and a drunk bud decided to take Sandy and her friend who were 14/15 years young for a joy ride across the Nevada State line with out there parents consent and did not bring them back till early hours the next morning… Oh, I forgot, even then Cotton thought they were Adult Women RIGHT...

TEX;

Tell me there best friend, how can your so called BEST FRIEND, who is a 22 year old ADULT MAN who has been around the block and is experienced in sex, porn, drugs can not know the difference between the mannerisms and looks and gestures of a just turned 15 years young teenager?

Cure my curiosities please..!

You say Shaw begged him for a ride to look for a purse? Where in the hell did you come up with that? Talk about fabrication? That fictional fact has never been mentioned in any testimony or new articles in the 20 years of this case ~n~ story…

Then you say: Shaw went out and shot Kelly *DAYS LATER* ?? Where are you coming up with this crap?

You asked, “How can plans of beating up a guy turn into murder? Ummm, hell, Wake up Tex~! That happens everyday… what world do you live in?

To help answer that in a better understanding, Try reading the testimonies of Shaw, Merritt and even Kell… It says it all bro…

In this case, unbeknown to Shaw *and* Merritt, Troy Kell brought a gun, why? Even to this day Kell cannot answer that just as in the HBO special~ He states he has no idea why he brought a gun and why he shot the man.. it just happened…

To answer why did They not go to the police? Who knows? Why did not Troy run and hide? Hell he cannot even answer that one? You can?

I mean sure it may seem logical for you to ask, Why they did not go to the police when things like this happens? Well until you’re in that situation, only then you might be able to answer that~ until that time, you’re really never going to know the answer are you...

Tex,

I'll take on each of your allegations and statement (some of which are pure fabrication not backed by any proof or testimony).

1) Your allegation: Cottton thought she was of age because he met her in a casio.

Sandy would never have passed for anything but a minor.
Her trial photos (a year later) attest to that:
serverscs.net/ggf/sandy.jpg

Also, she was not in the 'casino' - she was at the CHILDREN"S ARCADE area where the kids hang out and play arcade games.

Give me a break, age differences are very noticeable to young people. A 16 year can see that an 18 year old is older. Cotton was 21 and Sandy had only turned 15 that month.

2) You allegation that she begged him for a ride to find a lost purse.

No such fact was ever part of the case. Now you are just making things up.

3) Your allegation that she showed her friends the body.

Yeah she showed 2 friends the body, TWO, when they didn't believe her. So what. How is that even unusual? The press did pretty much the same thing going out to the scene with their cameras.

4) Your allegation that she went back a FEWS DAYS LATER after Cotton was dead and shot him.

That's just another FABRICATION. That's 2 and this last is so rediculous that IMHO it is sufficient to completely impune your credibility.

5) Your statement that you don't judge children by their parents. Prey tell, what ever are you talking about? Please explain in the detail that you claim to know.

HA,

While I was writing my post, UNKNOWN, went and beat me to it.

Notice that he or she knews the exact same claims to be unfounded and pure fiction.

But that is what Sandy has had to deal with for 20 years.

I believe it was Stalin who said "A lie told often enough becomes the truth."

So her opponets would just say things, make up things, and the public (not hearing anything to counter) would believe it was true. Well no more.

Drizz: I understand where you are coming from. Totally. Do you vote? Ever? Or even follow politics? Or do you leave the decisions to everyone else (majority rules)? In the last presidential election, I voted for the first time. I won't say for whom, but I did it ONLY because I was REALLY afraid of the opponent winning. And, I haven't voted since. We'll see what happens with the next election.

With this voting crap, I feel like politics are so corrupt. It's not about the truth anymore; it's about who's going to play golf and let who win so this person will be freed and we can get this and that vote. It's possible that all politicians begin with the most genuine, caring and honest blue prints, but they all end up succumbing to the evils that is every day political bullshit.

Unknown: It's funny, they show on t.v (of course) that prisoner's get access to the internet all the time. Look at all the looking for a mate websites. Is this just the prison that Sandy is in? Not that I ever would have believed it to be true, but the show Oz on HBO. They get music and theater and lots of other stuff.

Crystal: Maybe you can answer for us, what's it REALLY like in prison? Remember, no judgement just curiosity.

To me, if I wasn't claustrophobic, I've joked with friends that it would be like a freaking vacation. Regimented, three squares a day, cable, nothing to clean, gym, and a social environment. Of course, it was only a joke. But I can see why some people don't want to leave. For a lot of people it's got to be better than living on the outside? Choices: Go back where mom is a crackhead and her boyfriend(s) beat me up all the time or stay here and live the life of luxury? And most times it's worse than what I used as an example.

The WM3, only view it if you want to (again) get really pissed off - it is SO worth it!!!

I made all the copies of the letters at work today. I won't make them for the mail tomorrow (maybe) but they will be out as soon as I bring them home and address them all. :)

I can't even bring myself to respond to Tex.

Posted 4/1/06 @ 1:17am

Tex, YEAH!!! What Grey said!!!!

"Try reading the testimonies of Shaw, Merritt and even Kell."

Unknown, how do we get access to read all the testimonies?

Why did Shaw lead Cotton to his death? What was the reason for them to be out in the desert? Why believe the testamonials of murders? What is the age of a minor in Navada? Who, at the age of 21, has not had sex or tried drugs? How innocent was Shaw? Did she not see her father kill some kids at a earlier date? Not your typical 15 yr. old, she's been around alittle. This allegation of a joy ride one night across state lines, I have no idea if this happened or not, do you? Six days later before they were picked up, do you think that is enough time to "get your story straight"? Yes I would be interested in reading the testamonials of these murderers. You call it a allegation that she showed her friends the body and then you confirm it happened!! Grey's comment on this "How is that unusual"? You got to be kidding!! If you were a defence lawyer wouldn't you dress your client to project her as a innocent little girl, no make-up, remember this was in the 80's, big hair, paint, acid wash!!!

Tex,

You really need to carefully read what people say, because you often misquote them.

For example you said the fact that Sandy went back to the crime scene has been characterized as an 'allegation'.

Not so. I used word allegation referring to your claim that she went back and SHOT Cotton several days later - saying that your allegation that she shot him several days later was NOT TRUE.

What are you even talking about when you say, "Who, at the age of 21 (2 weeks short of 22 BTW) has not has sex or tried drugs'?

Are you suggesting that taking out a 15 year old is OK?

And now you erroneously say that Sandy's father was the person who committed the murders that Sandy witnessed.

I did not "comment" that it is not unusual that she took 2 of her friends to the murder scene when they didn't believe her. I asked the 'QUESTION" of how that is so unusual under the circumstances that her friends did not believe her.

But you didn't answer my question, except to ask if I am kidding?

Tex, answering a question with questions is non responsive.

The fact is that none of those kids went to the police for days except for one girl who did, but only after getting in a fight with Sandy - and those kids were all older than Sandy.. One went back (without Sandy even knowing) and with help robbed and pawned the jewlery that was still on Cotton's body.

So how is Sandy's actions of proving something (to a disbeliever) by showing the evidence so unusal????

Isn't that exactly what you have asked us to do - SHOW and TELL you the proof?

Tex,

Well I stand (partially) corrected (after reading what I wrote) because I DID refer to the matter of her going backl as an ALLEGATION. But I only ment that in the sence of the act being ALLEGED as 'unusual'

See it can happen to the best of us. LOL.

But I AM CORRECT - in that your claim that she went back and shot him says later is prue fiction.

Sorry on the referance to Shaw's father, it was a freinds step father. Here is a artical from KLASV.com Jan. 20 ) -- Sandy Shaw was an infamous criminal at age 15. Convicted for her role in the so-called "show and tell murder", she's been in jail for 18 years.

Sandy Shaw is the youngest female inmate ever sent to a Nevada adult prison. She's served more time than all but four of Nevada's female inmates. I-Team reporter George Knapp sat down with Sandy in an exclusive interview to talk about why she thinks she's done enough time.

"When I was 13 I was spending the night at my best friends house. Her step-father went into a jealous rage and shot and killed everybody in the home but me and my friend. When I was 14, I was at school and I was waiting for my mother to pick me up and I witnessed my classmate get shot," said Sandy Shaw, convicted murderer.

Even at the young age of 15, Sandy Shaw was no stranger to violence. Witnessing two separate killings first hand is something she's been forced to deal with both mentally and emotionally behind bars.

Sandy says she saw the bodies in both of those cases. "I started seeing a psychologist in prison," Shaw said. She added that it started her down the path of dealing with her trauma. "All the trauma that I've had in my life -- from just a small child and I started to separate the issues and with doing that I started realizing a lot about myself."

Shaw, along with 18-year-Troy Kell and 17-year-old Bill Merrit were convicted of killing 21-year old James Kelly in the high profile "show and tell murder" back in 1986. Shaw was found guilty of murder with the use of a deadly weapon even though Shaw, along with Kell and Merrit, claim that the 15-year old didn't know about the gun.

"I never meant for him to have his life taken." Shaw says she just wanted to scare Kelly and that she didn't know there would be a gun. But chief deputy Clark Peterson with the district attorney's office doesn't see it that way. Believing that Shaw played a bigger role in the murder by shooting the victim at least once. "The record from the trial is clear that she is the person who pulled the trigger at least once in this case and there's no contradictory evidence really to that other than Sandy Shaw's self-serving statement," Peterson said.

After her conviction, Sandy was sentenced to two life terms and was sent, not to a juvenile facility, but to Nevada's toughest women's prison.

Another artical this one from Las Vegas Review Journal. Cotton Kelly was a 21-year-old transplant from Whitecourt, Alberta, who moved to Las Vegas in 1985 and went to work at his mother's business, Nevalta Marketing. The business purportedly marketed cookbooks and a poster that promoted Las Vegas.
One night at Circus Circus in late September, Kelly encountered 15-year-old Sandy Marie Shaw. According to one press account, Kelly reluctantly agreed to a date with Shaw, who looked older than her years.
On Sept. 29, after hooking up with the girl, Kelly was taken into the desert at the north end of Jones Boulevard near Racel Street, robbed of $1,400 and was ambushed. He was shot six times in the head.
His body was found Oct. 5. Shaw, Troy Michael Kell and William Charles Merritt later were arrested and convicted of committing the crime. One witness, a school-age friend of Shaw's, told police Shaw talked about the murder and took him to view the body. Two of Shaw's acquaintances stripped Kelly's corpse of jewelry. At trial, one witness said Shaw laughed about the murder.
Shaw blamed Kell for the murder, but witnesses said it was she who led other friends on excursions to view the body and showed no remorse.
Shaw was convicted of first-degree murder and sentenced to life without parole. Kell received life without, Merritt a 10-year sentence.
The show-and-tell murder case sent the community reeling as it questioned what might bring a 15-year-old girl and two teen-age boys to commit such a heinous act of violence.
The death of James Cotton Kelly, who was eulogized as a kind, generous, fun-loving young man, became a symbol of a changing Las Vegas and society generally. If children were committing robberies and thrill kills, the world was in a desperate place, indeed.

TEX

Hey bud, nothing personal is meant in anything I say towards you ~ I respect your beliefs as I do everyone else’s because that is what you all have read and were led to believe due to the one sided stories over the past 20 years…

As I stated earlier, it is hard to believe what one says when you have no clue who they are and where they get there info… So that is why questions need to be asked and answered. So with that said….

Understand, no matter what the case may be, there are always two sides and perspectives to the story. Being that only one side has been told to the public for the past 20 years, it results in lopsided views and total negativity towards the accused. In all fairness to Sandy Shaw, the other side of the story should be told, and will be told, and then one can make there judgments.

These kind or a lopsided cases and one sided stories that are judged by HEAR SAY chats have caused many unethical trials and convictions though-out this country over the past decades… In this case, it has caused the railroading of a 15 year old teen into being convicted of SHOOTING AND KILLING someone when she never handled or new of a gun.

But being Sandy’s side was never told, but has always been there since day one, know one cares to take the time to say, Umm,. Maybe there is some truth too this? Maybe what she has stated since day one is true? You would not know this because you never saw or heard of any evidence that backed her story…

TEX,

What I am presenting on this board is the side of Sandy’s story that has not been allowed to be told. The side that was backed all along by both co-defendants, and of late, in 2002, has the backing of the lead Homicide Investigator in the "SHOW AND TELL" Murder back in 1986, David Hatch, who stated in a letter to the Pardons board that “Sandy Shaw’s part in this crime is EXACTLY as she has stated since day one”…

Now as of November 15th, 2004, after finally catching wind of THE OTHER SIDE OF THE STORY.. After seeing the tons of evidence that has been blanketed all these years by the unethical trial tactics use by the prosecuting team, the Nevada Supreme Court Justices including Governor Kenny Guinn have all agreed at her Nov 2004 Pardons board hearing that she was not the shooter.. They stated, IT HAS BEEN ESTABLISHED THAT SANDY SHAW WAS NOT THE SHOOTER…

So you resort to a battle of posting past articles... Well while your at it, you may as well take a look at this one too as it counters everything you have said PERIOD....If you believe what you read, then try this one from John L. Smith who is a well known and respected Staff writer for THE Las Vegas Journal...Copy and paste this one as it tells much of the other side of the story that has been blanketed from the public... COPY AND PASTE

http://www.reviewjournal.com/lvrj_home/2001/Apr-08-Sun-2001/news/15818957.html

TEX...

You posted this article / Statement…

**But chief deputy Clark Peterson with the district attorney's office doesn't see it that way. Believing that Shaw played a bigger role in the murder by shooting the victim at least once. "The record from the trial is clear that she is the person who pulled the trigger at least once in this case and there's *** NO *** contradictory evidence really to that other than Sandy Shaw's self-serving statement," Peterson said.

TIME OUT TEX….
Bullshit BUD... Only reason there was no other evidence is because MERRIT AND KELL were NEVER allowed to TESTIFY on HER behalf… that is why no other was present other than her self serving evidence…

Since day one, Both defendants have written under oath statements that she never handled the gun... MERRITTS under oath statements of the accounts of what happened ** PASSED a lie DETECTOR test** Merritt stated he and Sandy had NO IDEA of a GUN nor did Sandy ever HANDLED the GUN.. In Fact, his testimony states WHEN WE HEARD THE SHOTS, SANDY STARTED RUNNING TOWARDS THE CAR.. AND I YELLED NOT TO RUN.. BUT WALK...

You want to know what the so called EVIDENCE was that that CHIEF DEPTUTY DOG was talking about? ,,, It is a pure HEARSAY statement that was told from one 15 year old teen to another, then to another.. I said TOLD.. Not SHOWN or GIVEN or WITNESSED……. JUST TOLD…..That is the evidence he is talking about... and that is the evidence that convicted Sandy Shaw of 1st degree Murder and the Use of a Deadly Weapon…

YOU toss that crap into a court today, and they would laugh… She would never have been convicted on HEARSAY…

Goes to show you what happens when a 15 year old Teenager and her family have no money too afford respectable and legitimate council, and get nothing but WET BEHIND THE EARS Court appointed attorneys..

GOES to show you that MERRITS $80.000 dollar attorney got him off with a 10 year sentence and he saw his freedom after serving only 4 years… AS I mentioned above…
MERRITT HAD AS MUCH TO DO WITH THE ACTUAL MURDER OF COTEON KELLY AS SHAW DID, which was nothing and he was freed after serving 4 years…

Tiki

The court transcripts are of public knowledge, if one is interested, one just has to send (and pay dearly in $$ price $$) for them...

Debbie S.

It is pretty funny to see all the luxuries some places have on TV.. and I am sure in real life some may have those.. But no, Sandy's Correctional Faciltiy does not have those.. again, as you mentioned, maybe CRYSTAL can toss a few first hand perspectives on this...

TIKI

Sorry did not mean to cut your answer short.. I did not mean to sound like "well you (personally) would have to send for them" I will see what I can do to get you access...~K~.. (o:

Grey: Back to my letter(S): Do I only send one letter to the Nevada Board of Parole? Or do I need to see how many people are on the board and send each of them a letter?

What about the Board of Pardons?

I will of course send Sandy a copy also.

Can someone PLEASE post a link to the contact info for Sandy. I just took a look (more than once) on this blog and couldn't find it.

Thanks!!!

Debbie,

Here ya go...

Sandy Shaw #24126
4370 Smiley Road
Las Vegas Nevada
89115

Debbie,

Besides Parole, try sending your letter to the Governor, Chief Justice Rose and Justice Maupin.

Tex,

Re: One of the news articles you posted:

The statement [ "One night at Circus Circus in late September, Kelly encountered 15-year-old Sandy Marie Shaw."] is simply wrong.

She met kelly earlier that year, but had no contact with him until she ran into him (around September) at burger place on the strip where her friends hung out.

Also transparent are the coupled inferrences of the statement [According to one press account, Kelly reluctantly agreed to a date with Shaw, who looked older than her years."]

Give me a break! "reluctantly" ..."older than her years"?

Is that why he was reluctant - that she looked too old? LOL

To me the word choice reveals nothing but a blatant attempt to explain away Cotton's involvment with a 15 year old - and to blame it on the child.

Lets put it this way: If Sandy was running after Cotten, then why didn't the prosecuor simply produce the phone records to show who was calling who????

The fact that he did not is sufficient proof to me that the phone records would have proven the opposite.

Anyway, it's all water under the bridge. No one is saying that she has no culpability. Were just saying that her continued imprisonment is not in line with the level of justice given other women sentenced for the same or worse crimes.

She was a traumatized child. She spent more time in prison than other women sentenced for the same or worse crimes, and yet she's accomplished more in prison than most.

So WHY IS SHE STILL THERE?

Unknown-

I figured I'd have to pay for them but dearly? Ouch! I can't find any way on the internet to get them. Even had the old credit card out! Any help would be much appreciated.

TiKi,

Are you looking for info on Troy's trial or Sandy's?
All 3 had separate proceedings.

Neither boy testified at Sandy's trial, for example. And the transcripts do not include exhibits, and everything is not exhibited.

I would like to get all three if possible. Even if they aren't complete.

Tiki,

You can get old trial transcripts from the state assuming they haven't destroyed them for paperwork reduction. But like Unknown said, it can be a daunting and expensive undertaking.

I think hardly anything was said about Troy at Sandy's trial except for some testimony about Sandy trying to reach him at someone's home. and I believe everyone's story of events was fairly consistent.

Let me play devils advocate.

Grey: If we're all posting our opinions, then how do we know that what you say is true? We don't. This is all hearsay. It's all opinion. It's all perception. Like I said, and I still believe this to be true: There are three sides to every story: Yours, mine and the truth. In saying that, and obviously having no personal connection to this case, I will read one post and have one opinion. Then someone will post something else and I will have a different opinion. We are all human. AND, if you really get down to the nitty gritty, (God help me from going here) let's say, for instance, Sandy's defense attorney had a fight with his fiancee the morning of the trial, he's not going to be 100%. Or the Judge just found out that his wife has cervical cancer, he will not be 100% either. Unfortunately, we are all human. And fortunately we are all human. Does that make sense?

Grey: I will also send my letter to the Governor, Chief Justice Rose and Justice Maupin. I've had a set back, minor detail, but they should be in the mail by early next week.

Tiki: Did you send out a letter? If so, what did it say and who did you send it to? I'm interested. Also, have you ever sent any letter's for the WM3? I have a pic of Damien on my fridge and I say to myself I've got to do something, but I don't know what?

Jenny: You still watching? Any opinions?

Drizz: You still here? Please answer my questions, I am so curious as to what you have to say. About the whole voting thing inparticular. And I mean you personally.

Have a good night everyone!!

Posted 4/3/06 @ 1:53am

Debbie,

RE: How to tell what is true.

As Shelock Holmes used to say, it's elementary

One way you can judge is to simply ask what seems most reasonable.

You can also apply 'achem's razor' = the simplest answer tends to be the correct answer.

Take that news article saying "according to one press account Kelly reluctantly agreed to a date with Shaw, who looked older than her years".

Apart from the original account (not John Smith's column) being IMHO transparently contrived - my first impression was that some claims lacked truth.

You saw the trial video of Sandy in the documentary. Do you really think she could get past casino security? Do you think a 21 year old guy could have mistakn her for 21 - the age you have to be to gamble in Nevada?

What about the comment that Cotton "reluctantly" agreed to date her?

As I said, if phone records showed Sandy was calling Cotton, you'd better believe they would have been produced at trial - but they weren't.

How do you know what I'm saying is true, that they weren't produced?

You know by the fact that there are no news accounts of phone records, only an inflamatory statement that could be true or false.

Deducing the truth can be 'most elementary' - don't you agree?

Debbie, I have not voted in an election since 2000 and I haven't voted in a state or local issue since 2003. I refuse to vote because I refuse to lend my sanction to a system that says it is OK and proper to hold a vote on what to do with other people's lives and property. I didn't start this website with that belief, so a good chunk of my early work doesn't show this. Some important things I've written about voting:

http://www.drizzten.com/blargchives/000523.html (my last political vote)
http://www.drizzten.com/blargchives/000775.html (back when I helped get the Libertarians on the Texas ballot)
http://www.drizzten.com/blargchives/000968.html (why libertarians shouldn't vote for Bush)
http://www.drizzten.com/blargchives/000973.html (why voting is not a good way "to get your voice heard")
http://www.drizzten.com/blargchives/001000.html (A Solicitation to Those Who Say I Shouldn't Complain If I Don't Vote)
http://www.drizzten.com/blargchives/001366.html (John Edwards is wrong on the "promises of America")

I do follow politics but only to track the most recent depravities made in our name for our well-being by people who "represent" us in only the most strained and tortured reading of the term. In fact, the bulk of this website is devoted to being unkind towards the tide of government growth and power; check the main page ( http://drizzten.com/blog ) and the recent entries ( http://www.drizzten.com/blargchives/000386.html#entries ) for my thoughts.

Debbie, Tiki, Jenny, ___?

This link below pertains to a letter that was written on Sandy’s behalf from David Hatch, who was the Las Vegas Metro Police Detective's Lead Homicide Investigator at the time of the "Show and Tell Murders". He wrote this in 2002 to the Board of Commissioners on Sandy Shaw’s behalf to show what their results were from their extensive investigation into the Murder…

Please remember, this is from the Las Vegas Metro Police Departments Lead Homicide Detective who HAS SEEN ALL THE EVIDENCE AND TESTIMONIES…This is stating that what Sandy wrote in her letter for Clemency, which contained her accounts of that night telling of her innocence in her part in the actual shooting, knowledge of a gun, or the knowledge of Troy Kell’s intentions of killing Cotton Kelly…

It also was printed in article by George Knapp who is a member of the KLAS Channel 8 News team.

This is just one of many bits of info that will allow you to see where I am coming from... This is a letter

http://serverscs.net/ggf/metro.jpg

I'm here guys, I just have alot going on right now. And to be honest, this is starting to piss me off. I feel bad for Sandy, and I feel like she got way more than she deserved. I have a friend that shot her husband while he was sleeping, shot him in the back of the head. She tried to blame it on her 2 year old daughter. Then she tried to say she got up off the bed, grabbed the gun, and shot him. But there were gun powder burns on his brain. When she heard that she changed her story yet again. She said the gun