March 11, 2003
Test of Ethics

Billy Beck asks a question

Let's say that you woke up one morning and, looking out your front window, you observed a crowd of people at the end of your driveway. Let's say that you went out there to say "hi" and find out what's going on. On your arrival, you discover that this crowd of individuals was getting ready to hold a referendum on whether they should enter your house and take your things, to be put to their use.

Would you cast a vote?

Think about it.


This is the very essence of the dangers of collectivism, and extension, democracy. I've often used a hypothetical story about a starving man stealing from a home to feed himself (or his kids...ya gotta hit them from all angles in debates) as a way to ease those who disagree with me on taxation, into my mindset towards it. This question illustrates the principles even better.

Via No Treason, and whom I agree with regarding the bit about voting defensively.



Posted by Drizzten at March 11, 2003 01:02 AM

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You can extend democracy and stillprevent such things from happening by making clear from the beginning which areas are sacred and can't be voted about. 'shrugs'
I mean in the end it's always a question of how willing the majority is to go along with the rules or to break em violently.
I mean how do you want to stop a strong mass movement? Call up the military to stop the people from changing some basic rules, the constituional rights? You can call it sad but in the end the power lies within the majority, you can't stop it without riskin a civil war. Where does your legitimacy come to stop the majority from changing the rules, the system?
It's not as easy...
The only reason why our system works is cause the government takes care that the satisfactory level of the majority doesn't get too low. Entertainment and work keeps em distracted and lazy from goin to the streets.
So to come back to the hypotethical question ... I wouldn't vote since it would be sensless, so I'd either try to convince em that it's wrong and also not in their interests, build an oposition, if that doesn't work then fight for my home or give up and move out to another country. 'shrugs' it's nothing new and it happens all around the world o.O Look at what happened in Ex Yugoslawia or Zimbabwe... even the supreme court there wasn't able to protect the white farmers since Mugabe just changed the constitution and kicked out the judges.

Ehm regarding taxation... I don't know how your question would help your position. 'heh' I'd feel kinda bad after he gets arrested and start to ask: Why? What's goin wrong in our system that a father has to do such a thing to save his family from starving?
Sure it is a crime but ... ya know I wouldn't press any charges on him. It wouldn't be appropriate.
And regarding my stance on taxes to fund a social security system. Well as a Muslim it's kinda easy to me. XD Giving alms is one of the main duties. You can't slip from it. You should give as much as you can afford. But also not too much so that it harms yoiurself, that would then be a sin again. Always search for a balance. There is a complete ruleset of how to calculate how much to give but I don't have it in mind rigth now ^^'
Oh and read this, it reflects my views on that issue mostly. http://www.islamicity.com/qa/action.lasso?-database=Services&-response=DetailPop.shtml&-layout=ask&-sortField=Topic&-sortOrder=ascending&-op=cn&Topic=taxe&-op=eq&Answer_flag=X&-maxRecords=1&-search
In an Islamic state there should be a double taxation, one which the government raises, this one should be as low as possible and only there to finance needs of the whole population like infrastructure, education etc.
And the second one the Zakhat is only there to maintain social peace by serving the needs of those who can't work because of not self inflicted circumstances, like illness, not finding work etc. That way the poor man wouldn't have had to rob my house XP
Sorry if it partially doesn't make sense, I'm still half asleep ~~
Well at least it might give you another point of view ^_~

Posted by: LC on March 11, 2003 04:47 AM

Rights are not safe as long as the people have a way to take money, violate property rights, and impose their morals on others through the government.

Theft is theft is stealing is stealing. You can't justify it, otherwise you dissolve the entire reason for making it illegal and believing it immoral.

Posted by: Drizz on March 11, 2003 01:19 PM

I never said it is justified, what I asked for is to include it in the judgement... and not see things "black & white" only like someone speshial does XP
We are able to see shades, too see different aspects of one and the same issue. And we shouldn't handicap ourselves for the sake of making things easier.
I wouldn't press any charges on him, as a private man, that's what i meant. But the state would have to do so, the judge would have to plead him guilty to keep the system up, but he wouldn't give him a high sentence.
Cause in our judicial system grey is neither black nor white, theft is not theft, as murder is not murder, it always depends on the circumstances and motives.

Oh and rights are never safe... it is a continous struggle to maintain as many as possible. People always try to press their views and interests upon others, ther's no way to prevent this other than by force. And in a democracy use of force is limited.

Posted by: LC on March 11, 2003 03:16 PM

human vandals suck

Posted by: Human Vandalism Sabotage on November 12, 2004 04:37 PM

Hoo boy. The sizzling irony of the spamming fucks at Disaster Recovery Group (or whomever they hired to be their counterproductive advertising firm) commenting that "human vandals suck" in a manner on my website that is directly contradictory to the rules I've laid out for usage of my property in a post that itself condemns the involuntary usage of one's property by other people.

I've had enough for this Friday.

Posted by: Drizz on November 12, 2004 04:45 PM
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